fnfalman
Contributor
I've only had one unpleasant encounter with an instructor at Casino Point but it was topside and not underwater, especially about physical contact like this jerk did.
Instructor shoving people off lines
- Thread starter Clammy
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I wonder if this was the same instructor I saw berate a new diver? By mid-day with the tide going out and the wind picking up, it was getting a bit tough getting out. A lot of folks were struggling to get up on the outbound step. One of the girls I know in passing was getting out of the water with her dive buddy in the water behind her, and even with the boosts from the back end, she was having some tough times trying to stand up once she landed on the stairs.
An unknown instructor stood there with his hands on his side, on the step above her, while she struggled. Didn't bother to help her get up, but did manage to make a few disparaging remarks about the group she was with and told her to hurry up because his students were behind her. I floated about 15 feet away from the traffic jam with my mouth wide open kind of taken back with what I heard. Unfortunately, I couldn't find him once I got out of the water. He was truly a jerk. I spoke to this young lady after I got out and she was miserable on the verge of tears. What a nice way to end your dive for the day.
I know that people can get all riled up about training agencies and competitors, but why would you stand around watching someone get battered by a wave and having issues getting to their feet? A matter of training here? Sure, maybe, but we all have to start somewhere. I'm sure that he looked just as silly and had issues when he was on his first dives. I know I struggled with those steps my first time out there.
But to the OP, what that instructor did was just plain rude and dangerous. If this is "their" buoy, they can put a flag on it and let everyone know it's THEIR buoy and not for anyone else's use. Then we can all tie floats out there and be idiots when anyone else uses them. It will be a park full of floats.
An unknown instructor stood there with his hands on his side, on the step above her, while she struggled. Didn't bother to help her get up, but did manage to make a few disparaging remarks about the group she was with and told her to hurry up because his students were behind her. I floated about 15 feet away from the traffic jam with my mouth wide open kind of taken back with what I heard. Unfortunately, I couldn't find him once I got out of the water. He was truly a jerk. I spoke to this young lady after I got out and she was miserable on the verge of tears. What a nice way to end your dive for the day.
I know that people can get all riled up about training agencies and competitors, but why would you stand around watching someone get battered by a wave and having issues getting to their feet? A matter of training here? Sure, maybe, but we all have to start somewhere. I'm sure that he looked just as silly and had issues when he was on his first dives. I know I struggled with those steps my first time out there.
But to the OP, what that instructor did was just plain rude and dangerous. If this is "their" buoy, they can put a flag on it and let everyone know it's THEIR buoy and not for anyone else's use. Then we can all tie floats out there and be idiots when anyone else uses them. It will be a park full of floats.
lemon
Guest
I really hope that you can ID this jerk. Totally unacceptable (and dangerous) behavior. There needs to be consequences for this kind of reckless behavior.
As Brian mentioned, he told me of this incident that day at the park when I saw him. Let me offer some clarification.
Understand that permanent drop-down buoys and lines are set by the four dive shops here on the island. They are maintained by them and as Elena pointed out are NOT in navigable waters (at least we aren't supposed to have boats inside the dive park). The local dive shops use these lines for their classes (relatively few in number) and Discover SCUBA operations. However, if the lines are not in use by the shop that installed them, others are free to use them. No instructor from the local shops is likely to object if another diver uses these lines when they are not.
So the instructor in question who shoved Bryan and his buddy off the line most likely was NOT a local instructor working with one of the four shops. After all, we are all islanders and very mellow people (until you piss us off!). Most likely it was an instructor from a mainland shop using the line for his students to descend. It is done every day.
The behavior of shoving another diver (divers in this case) off the line is rather inappropriate regardless of whether that instructor wanted students to ascend. These lines are for descents... AND ascents. Don't know whether the instructor and their students were on the line first or whether Brian and his buddy were, but that kind of behavior is certainly inappropriate. A simple attempt at communication by the instructor would have sufficed. I know Bryan and we have dived as buddies. He is a considerate individual... even if he was a little "clammy" in his wetsuit last weekend!
I have observed all sorts of inappropriate behavior by instructors out at the park. Most instructors are very courteous and considerate, and mindful of others in the water. There are some, fortunately relatively few, who think they are their classes are the only ones in the park. I have seen them tie up the stairs (both up and down) for far longer than was necessary, either instructing their students on the down side stairs (which actually is forbidden by the posted rules at the park) or spending an inordinate amount of time getting students out on the up side.
When the park isn't crowded, many of the rules need not be enforced. However, when it is crowded (sometimes with hundreds of divers in a single day using the one set of stairs on multiple dives), these rules and common courtesy need to be followed and other dive groups respected.
Understand that permanent drop-down buoys and lines are set by the four dive shops here on the island. They are maintained by them and as Elena pointed out are NOT in navigable waters (at least we aren't supposed to have boats inside the dive park). The local dive shops use these lines for their classes (relatively few in number) and Discover SCUBA operations. However, if the lines are not in use by the shop that installed them, others are free to use them. No instructor from the local shops is likely to object if another diver uses these lines when they are not.
So the instructor in question who shoved Bryan and his buddy off the line most likely was NOT a local instructor working with one of the four shops. After all, we are all islanders and very mellow people (until you piss us off!). Most likely it was an instructor from a mainland shop using the line for his students to descend. It is done every day.
The behavior of shoving another diver (divers in this case) off the line is rather inappropriate regardless of whether that instructor wanted students to ascend. These lines are for descents... AND ascents. Don't know whether the instructor and their students were on the line first or whether Brian and his buddy were, but that kind of behavior is certainly inappropriate. A simple attempt at communication by the instructor would have sufficed. I know Bryan and we have dived as buddies. He is a considerate individual... even if he was a little "clammy" in his wetsuit last weekend!
I have observed all sorts of inappropriate behavior by instructors out at the park. Most instructors are very courteous and considerate, and mindful of others in the water. There are some, fortunately relatively few, who think they are their classes are the only ones in the park. I have seen them tie up the stairs (both up and down) for far longer than was necessary, either instructing their students on the down side stairs (which actually is forbidden by the posted rules at the park) or spending an inordinate amount of time getting students out on the up side.
When the park isn't crowded, many of the rules need not be enforced. However, when it is crowded (sometimes with hundreds of divers in a single day using the one set of stairs on multiple dives), these rules and common courtesy need to be followed and other dive groups respected.
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I try to be especially understanding and tolerant when divers are having trouble exiting on the stairs at low tide. It is not easy unless you have done it a number of times and know the best tricks to use (most of them don't work well at very low tide). I have sat back in the water waiting patiently for divers to exit, knowing that even after 2,000+ dives in the dive park alone, I could look like a miserable flop exiting.
The situations I DO have a problem with are when divers, even students with their instructors, exit and then stay on the lower stairs preventing others from exiting the water until they finally move up. Divers exiting when there is a line waiting to get in should land on the lower stairs and walk backwards up the stairs to the large, flat "step." It is designed to be a place where divers can remove their fins and not be in the way of other divers trying to exit. Many times I have had to ask divers basically "sitting" on the lower stairs after exiting to "clear the lower stairs" so others could exit. Once an instructor and his wife actually stood on the lower stair for at least 10 minutes while I patiently requested this. Getting no response from him other than that they were "trying" (by standing still on the stairs?), I finally came in and made contact with them as I exited. They complained saying they had only been there two minutes, but observers at the top of the stairs corrected them and said it had been about 120 minutes. Inexcusable behavior.
The situations I DO have a problem with are when divers, even students with their instructors, exit and then stay on the lower stairs preventing others from exiting the water until they finally move up. Divers exiting when there is a line waiting to get in should land on the lower stairs and walk backwards up the stairs to the large, flat "step." It is designed to be a place where divers can remove their fins and not be in the way of other divers trying to exit. Many times I have had to ask divers basically "sitting" on the lower stairs after exiting to "clear the lower stairs" so others could exit. Once an instructor and his wife actually stood on the lower stair for at least 10 minutes while I patiently requested this. Getting no response from him other than that they were "trying" (by standing still on the stairs?), I finally came in and made contact with them as I exited. They complained saying they had only been there two minutes, but observers at the top of the stairs corrected them and said it had been about 120 minutes. Inexcusable behavior.
a dive knife to his HP hose would have adjusted his focus quite quickly.
blue steal
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Actually a dive knife to the low pressure hose will empty the tank quicker, but good idea.
I saw three buoys there two orange and one small white one in 20' of water just a short distance out from the steps. I had found a 25lb weight belt while diving and swam it over to the line, tied it off at the base, and as I was swimming away saw about 6 students dropping down like stones. They don't look down, so I got out of there quick. Often times I just use the kelp stalks to ascend, it works to move up in the water colum slowly, plus you get to watch the fish inside the kelps.
Thanks for the map Elena, and to the OP, sorry about what happened to your friend.
Yep, the guys a jerk. But it does illustrate how important proper weight and training can be. What if your buddy panicked, forgot their training, and embolised? What if there wasnt a line to grab and the water was deeper? What if their grasp on the line was lost or a current swept them off? Fortunately, nobody suffered long term injuries
yet anyway. 
I am a proponent of performing weight checks to be neutral no less than 10/3 Meters (decompression stop) deep at 200 PSI/14 Bar in salt or fresh water, whichever you are diving in. It is a lot of trouble, but can be important at the least expected times as you discovered.
I am a proponent of performing weight checks to be neutral no less than 10/3 Meters (decompression stop) deep at 200 PSI/14 Bar in salt or fresh water, whichever you are diving in. It is a lot of trouble, but can be important at the least expected times as you discovered.
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Brian - Relieved your buddy and you are safe. I like the posters who suggests a knife to the LP hose.
OP
Clammy
Contributor
Just to be clear, there were no divers at the BOTTOM of the line when we got there. The instructor came over and shoved us off and indicated that his students were coming down.
Yes weighting is an important issue. My buddy is a relatively inexperienced diver and purchased everything new, including a drysuit and bp/w a few months ago all at once. We were in Catalina primarily to keep up her skills and adjust weighting etc. With in a few lbs, it's not always just about weight but about comfort, dry suit loft, not having all the air out of the wing etc. All stuff she is getting used to and that comes with experience.
I'm not actively looking for that instructor anymore or anything. It'll be impossible to figure out who it is and prove anything at this point anyways. I'm sure if he's willing to push people off lines, he'll get himself into trouble later anyways and hopefully have his instructors licensed pulled or something, that's gross negligence in terms of safety of other divers.
Yes weighting is an important issue. My buddy is a relatively inexperienced diver and purchased everything new, including a drysuit and bp/w a few months ago all at once. We were in Catalina primarily to keep up her skills and adjust weighting etc. With in a few lbs, it's not always just about weight but about comfort, dry suit loft, not having all the air out of the wing etc. All stuff she is getting used to and that comes with experience.
I'm not actively looking for that instructor anymore or anything. It'll be impossible to figure out who it is and prove anything at this point anyways. I'm sure if he's willing to push people off lines, he'll get himself into trouble later anyways and hopefully have his instructors licensed pulled or something, that's gross negligence in terms of safety of other divers.
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