Instructor putting his students at risk?

[Brendon]

So I recently crewed on a boat that had several "out of town divers" on it, including their instructor. After giving the dive briefing for our night dive the instructor came up to me and told me that he would be jumping in with his group negative. I said something like "WTF are you talking about". He said he had cleared it with the captain and that the captain said to let me know since I was guiding for them... I clearly stated my concerns yet still agreed to guide for them since I probably would not have been welcome on the boat again if I did not... I jumped in first and waited for everyone else before I descended, though some were already half way to the bottom. On my descent I found one diver to be in distress to say the least... He lost his mask on entry and was rapidly sinking to the bottom. I grabbed his inflater and got him neutral. I must have held the power inflater for what it seemed to be 10 seconds.. I always carry a LV spare mask in my BC its small enough to fit in one of my zip pockets. So I gave it to the diver he put it on but had trouble clearing it. I used my other reg to put air in his mask by tilting it back as we normally would and purged the reg to get some air in there. It worked well enough for him to see me which is all I wanted. I was trying to calm him down, I hoped when he could see me he would relax. Finally he snapped out of it and gave me an OK sign, I signaled to him to surface with me. After getting him back on the boat, I went back to find the other divers. I did, they were not aware of what happened nor was his dive buddy or the instructor looking for him. Since I could not see any other issue with dive or its safety at this point we continued the dive. Afterwords the dive buddy asked "Hey what happened to --------? My response was "I guess if your instructor trained you properly you would know". The instructor was standing right next to me, everyone could clearly see the expression on his face, he was pretty pissed off at my statement. His response was something I don't believe should be repeated here. I walked over to the diver I assisted and picked up his weight belt. He had 26lbs on his belt. 16lbs would have been more then enough, he wasn't even wearing a wet suit. He never adjusted his weight from the cold water dives when he was taught. I gave the instructor an earful in front of his student, "your student was severely over-weighted, your negative entry BS put this student and the other freshly certified OW students lives in danger by jumping in the water with no air in their BCD's. This particular student had little or no skill in clearing a mask. (no it wasn't the mask size) He couldn't even stop himself from sinking. To me that clearly shows you are a piss poor instructor, but hey atleast you made sure his air was on before he jumped in. Good job". The captain stopped me at that point. Not much was said on the way back to the dock, I left pretty quickly. I did not want to make the situation worse. The diver never acknowledged what had happened or even said anything for that matter to me.

I'm sure there are details that I'm leaving out. I will answer as asked. Question is what would you have done differently?

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Wow. First of all, I wonder, these people were just new OW divers or AOW students? Either way, I would never take a new night dive group in a negative entry. Please. And was this night dive their first dive since winter weighting? Why neg entry and not a buoyancy check? Arghhh. Some instructors and dm's prefer rocks. They are easier to control..... (again, arrrgghhh!)

I can see your frustration. I sometimes have real trouble keeping my mouth shut around arrogant idiocy. I am sure the instructor was pissed at public upbraiding. As a business owner, I would say try diplomacy first. Things confronted privately, often have a bigger impact and meaning because then, the guy isn't trying to defend public attack or save face. If that didn't work, you should have asked the captain or shop manager to address this with the instructor. I then would have talked to the guy you dealt with, the diver, and asked him some questions on weighting, clearing, debriefed the dive, and helped him. Tell him how to avoid the situation and solve those problems. He would have come to the conclusion all by himself about what was really wrong.
As a dm, you have to be diplomatic, no matter how hard. At least, at first.

 

[flots am]

yet still agreed to guide for them since I probably would not have been welcome on the boat again if I did not . . . Question is what would you have done differently?

I would have talked to the captain again and expressed my concerns. Anything that makes you uncomfortable should pretty much terrify the captain.

If the captain didn't stop the negative entry, I would have told the instructor I would not be participating in his dive. With any luck it would have made him re-think his plan.

If that didn't work I would have told the students, and would have remained on the boat. This would have really pissed off the instructor, but is something I'd happily exchange for what could have easily been multiple injuries/fatalities.

flots.

 

[davetowz]

There is a certain peace about stating what you feel you must, sounds like the instructor sucked and if the Captain of the boat had an issue with your berating that "instructor" maybe that boat is not one you should choose to crew on, I wouldn't. Glad to hear you brought the diver with issues back up, sad to hear that this ever occurred. Somethings are more valuable than the business this jackplate will bring to that boat.

 

[oceanbound]

I'm not an instructor or a DM and not sure if I want to be based on what they have to deal with. I feel like you said what most anyone would have liked to have said. Problem is that in this day the best way to deal with things may have been to talk to the diver to be sure he/she understands those basic concepts you discussed so that they weren't turned off of diving. You've seen the "skills" the instructor has so odds are the new diver doesn't know good techniques because they weren't taught to them. Going over what may have been the problem for the student will be a big asset to them and hopefully they have the common sense to think "oh, why didn't my instructor tell me that?!?", without having to be pointed out. As for the instructor, this should have been dealt with in private, out of ear shot of the student. And addressed with the captain before hand as the captain is ultimately responsible. If the captain didn't see things the same way then you have the option of not going back on the boat again. you stated you "crewed" the dive boat. does this mean you were the DM? if so, what are the legal issues you would have been liable with had an accident occurred? This should be your determining factor in then deciding if you should go out with the same boat/captain again.

 

[Brendon]

Just to reply to a couple of questions and comments in the last posts. No I am not a DM, I am a instructor. To work full time in my location one must be diverse. That said I assume the role of which im being paid in most circumstances. The divers were OW certified, 1 of the 5 was AOW. 6 total 1 a SSI instructor, 1 AOW, the rest OW. I had expressed my concerns to the captain and instructor prior to the dive. I agree my frustrations came out in an unprofessional matter, though had I not been there the outcome may have been significantly different. I make a living on the water, so my relationships with the captains are a must if I want to put food on the plate for my children. That said I believe that I will be working 1 less boat this summer for personal reasons.

 

[divin'dog]

Unfortunately neither the captain nor the other instructor heeded your advice... I'd say that if you had a working relationship with the captain, I'm disappointed that he didn't listen to your concerns. You're the one guiding the dive and have a certain responsibility to them. What on earth was the reason given for doing a negative entry that night?

 

[Petert71]

Day or night, I don't see why a negative entry would every be a good thing. It get's you to the bottom quicker but at a lot more risk. Many equipment problems I've experienced occur on entry and can be easily noted and fixed on the surface. I guess the only thing you might have done differently would be to object to this.

Well done on keeping the destressed diver alive though

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Okay, after a cup or two of coffee this morning, I have re-read. The instructor said the captain gave the green light? The captain is in charge of location, boat, and passengers ride, entry, and exit of the water. He is not in charge of the dive. He cannot okay your choices. You now tell us you are an instructor. Then you knew this instructor was being an idiot and you have more leeway. I have called dives because instructors refused to do buoyancy checks with their people, or they were carrying out unsafe dive practices on my boat. They are welcome to go to another boat if they want to be cowboys.

I can see, however, that you were in a bad situation. If you are crewing a boat and do not have the authority to do everything possible to ensure safe passage and dive conditions for your divers, you should not crew that boat. Did you have the power to call the dive? Some dm's are not given that right, and I think it is a shame. A negative entry on a well known dive site at night, is not a great plan. A negative entry in a new locale with new divers is asking for trouble. The instructor should have known that. Hell, I make all mine do a buoyancy check on their first night dive to get a feel for the weight changes with the lights. Just to feel the differences, no matter how slight. Of course, I never let a diver overweight themselves. That makes it relevant.
I definitely would have stopped the negative entry, to begin with. And since you are instructor, he would not be able to play the," I know better because you are just a dm," card that I often see.
By the way, good job on sorting out that diver before he could panic and get hurt.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Day or night, I don't see why a negative entry would every be a good thing. It get's you to the bottom quicker but at a lot more risk. Many equipment problems I've experienced occur on entry and can be easily noted and fixed on the surface. I guess the only thing you might have done differently would be to object to this.

Well done on keeping the destressed diver alive though

Sidebar. We do negative entries on one particular site here all the time. When the tide turns, there is no other option but a ripping drift dive. We have to do a quick group backroll or group giant stride off our platform with negative entry. If not, we are really swept away and you miss the reef altogether. It is fast and fun, but not for inexperienced divers. And we never do it at night.