Instructor flexibility in training.

[cooperscuba]

In PADI standards, the student is required to demonstrate hovering, for example, but it's up to the instructor to decide what exactly hovering is, and to apply a standard for quality of performance.

The wording is "demonstrate mastery" of a skill. Alas, there are too many instructors who interpret this as "do it once" and then move on to the next skill.

 

[bjjman]

What an instructor can't do is fail a student because they have failed to perform a skill added by the instructor.

Why in the world is that? If I became an instructor I would want to set a minimum level of skill that I would want every one of my students to complete to earn my certification. How is it that an agency can force you to lower your standards?

 

[cooperscuba]

Why in the world is that?

because I'm a PADI instructor and teach PADI courses, ergo I teach to their standards and abide by their rules

If I became an instructor I would want to set a minimum level of skill that I would want every one of my students to complete to earn my certification.

Erm ... that's what PADI, NAUI, CMAS, SSI, BS-AC etc. have already done. If you created your own training agency, you could set your own skills & levels.

How is it that an agency can force you to lower your standards?

see above

 

[bjjman]

because I'm a PADI instructor and teach PADI courses, ergo I teach to their standards and abide by their rules

You've done a splendid job of not answering my question. What I've gathered is that PADI forbids you from requiring anything higher than their minimums.

Erm ... that's what PADI, NAUI, CMAS, SSI, BS-AC etc. have already done. If you created your own training agency, you could set your own skills & levels. see above

Erm ... To the best of my knowledge that is not true. I was under the impression NAUI instructors are allowed, even encouraged, to add to the minimum requirements.

 

[Thalassamania]

You've done a splendid job of not answering my question. What I've gathered is that PADI forbids you from requiring anything higher than their minimums.

That is correct, good PADI Instructors all have to become masters of "elaboration," the PADI term for those things that may be added, but not tested.

Erm ... To the best of my knowledge that is not true. I was under the impression NAUI instructors are allowed, even encouraged, to add to the minimum requirements.

Correct, that results in what some die-hard PADI Instructors (who are described by even PADI colleagues as "blinkered" or "ignorant") denigrate as, "know-it-all" classes.

 

[AndyNZ]

Pretty much what you said, you aren't allowed to weight students before you put them underwater on SCUBA. That pretty much eliminates doing anything on SCUBA correctly during CW 1.

Not at all.

In CW2, you are evaluating the student's ability to do a buoyancy check. That doesn't preclude you from getting the student diver correctly weighted by talking them through how to do a buoyancy check and evaluating the amount of weight they need prior to that.

There is, even with in PADI instructors, a real lack of understanding of what you can and can't do. It's not surprising that non-PADI instructors don't understand it either.

Why in the world is that? If I became an instructor I would want to set a minimum level of skill that I would want every one of my students to complete to earn my certification. How is it that an agency can force you to lower your standards?

The intent of this is quite simple. These are the skills that PADI believe are required to be a capable open water diver. The student must be able to do those skills to level of performance specified in the standards. That doesn't mean that you can't add additional skills - but it does mean that you can't mess with the objective standards. For example, the performance requirement for the hover is confined water is (paraphrased) "hover motionless without kicking and sculling for 30 seconds". You can get your students to hover for five minutes if you like, but any student who can hover for 30s is deemed to have performed the skill. You can't "fail" a student because they don't hover for five minutes.

It is intended to maintain consistency (though some would say at a low level) across many instructors. I'm being picky in terms of language, but if you really think that you would teach such that "every one of my students to complete to earn my certification" then PADI is not the right agency for you. It is a PADI course, not a bjjman course.

That's not to say that PADI courses are inflexible, far from it.

That is correct, good PADI Instructors all have to become masters of "elaboration," the PADI term for those things that may be added, but not tested.


Correct, that results in what PADI Instructors denigrate as, "know-it-all" classes.

I agree with your first comment, Thal. To teach effectively in the PADI system you need to be aware about what you are allowed and expected to do. But it's not rocket science to do that.

Your second comment, however, is a gross generalisation and makes it sound like all PADI instructors have issues with NAUI courses. That's simply not the case.

 

[Thalassamania]

... Your second comment, however, is a gross generalisation and makes it sound like all PADI instructors have issues with NAUI courses. That's simply not the case.

Sorry ... you are correct, fixed.

 

[AndyNZ]

Thanks, Thal! As well as die-hard, I wouldn't have minded if you'd used "blinkered" or "ignorant".

 

[Thalassamania]

OK, fixed.

 

[AndyNZ]

Ah, should have seen that one coming!!!! :lol: