Instructor Costs & "Tips"?

[Lead_carrier]

I was suprised to read the general concensus here. I thought I'd get a lot more in favour of tips. I must say our last dive trip the DM's and instructor were so goodwe bought a "slab" of beer (24 bottles) at the end of our stay as a thank you

There were 2 questions asked. The first was about tipping an instructor that let the OP slip into class to practice. The 2nd was about hiring a buddy, dm or instructor. If someone just get in the pool to play, stays out of my way and doesn't demand instruction or help. I don't expect a tip. Helping carry my tanks or gear is always appreciated and a handshake and/or hug go a LONG way for payment.

If someone hires me to do a dive with them and they pay me directly, personally I don't expect a tip, unless I've had to go to a lot of trouble to bail them out of a brain freeze situation.

 

[Frosty]

Let's look at a different scenario. I work in a burger restaurant. Five people request burgers. I expect them to pay for those burgers. Last week, this guy bought a burger from me, but since I know him and he came back to buy another burger, I slip him a side order of fries for free. I still expect to be paid for the burger. In return, if I ever walk into the pub that this guy owns, maybe he'd like to slip me a shot of tequila when I order a round of beers.

The OP asked if he could use the pool during the instructor's class. Perhaps that took a little bit of time and attention and there is no such thing as a free air fill, however miniscule the cost per tank may be. Me? In this case, I'd buy the guy a beer, or a burger, or whatever, just to say thanks. It's kind of a normal human thing to do, I reckon.

Can I reuse your senario--Lets say you work in burger joint ABC but all around you are burger joint 123 even ab1. Customers go into your burger joint and ask for a table to be wiped down or napkins -ie a form of customer service. You procede to lecture them about how its not your job to do so and theres extra cost involved and they should pay. You do so in a sneering or surly tone. Which burger bar are the customers going to go back to?-Yours or the one next door where they do this as part of the job and do so with a smile on their faces.

I suspect maybee the chalange is that we come from different prospectives.
You perhaps are the guy working in behind the counter of the burger bar doing the grunt work ie you are an instructor (and I don't know so forgive me if I'm wrong)
As a result your view is in the here and now.-What do I get out of it NOW
I'm the guy who is building his buisiness. I see the cost of a fill as being advertising. Ie the OP will prefer to buy from my LDS and will refer his freinds to my LDS. I'm looking at the long term picture.
It frustrates me to spend thousands in advertising and a poor attitude from a staff member costs me more is sales than all the advertising gained.

 

[Frosty]

Guys-If I could just explain my prospective if you don't mind.
Here in Auckland there is a bitter fight between wharfies (container terminal workers) and the company that employs them. Basicly the warfies want a bigger pay rise than the company is prepared to pay them. The warfies are using strike action and the threat of strike action.
Now the problem is that CUSTOMERS have just had a gutsfull. Those customers are choosing to take their buisiness elsewhere to other ports around the country. Millions of dollars in lost revenue. This will lead to job losses which will lead to industrial action -less customers -job losses etc etc

 

[boulderjohn]

$10 is beer money and that's the best money!

That depends upon what you like.

When I starting taking cave instruction, my instructor said he was doing instruction while partly retired only so that he "could drink a better brand of whisky."

I took that to heart. It took me two visits to complete my instruction, and after each one I left him with a pretty good single malt scotch. I think that sort of thing leads to a feeling of appreciation for the effort he took to get me through the class more than the equivalent amount of money would--and I did appreciate it.

As for letting a certified diver use the pool when I was already using it, I agree with those who really wouldn't expect anything but would really appreciate a hand with hauling equipment.

 

[RonFrank]

For using the pool most shops have an arrangement where students get pool time during scheduled classes at no charge. Buy the instructor a beer or whatever if you want. Really its the shops pool you are using. Buy some gear there, that's a good thank you.

As for the cost of a guide, talk to the shop or individual you are thinking of hiring. I know in the keys guides are $50-75 a trip (2 dives). You can share guides and the price is then shared, so less per student. You may find the instructor likes diving with former students. A meal is generally appreciated if they are not hired but along for a dive.

 

[Crowley]

As an instructor I am of course interested in the here and now - as is everybody who earns a wage - but for me personally, I am not interested only in the here and now. My goal is to provide a quality of service above and beyond what is strictly required. In one case, this involved me personally paying, with my own money, for an uninsured diver to visit the hyperbaric chamber because he was bent. If I ever went above and beyond the call of duty, that was it - it cost me a ffflipping fortune! (I got the money refunded)

I agree there is no place for surly and sneering dive staff - and it's self defeating in a way, because customers will go elsewhere - just like the burger joint. One place serves burgers, the other place serves burgers and cleans and tidies and looks after their customers. Which place will I go to? The latter, of course - in which place am I most likely to say "keep the change"? The same place, of course. If you want an idea how I personally think it should work, read my blog about "the best tips in life are free".

Going back to the OP is a tip required for using the pool? No - but a friendly beer or helping to haul equipment - as previously posted - would be a nice thing to do in return. An actual financial "tip" is not required.

The second question was about paying for a private guide 1-1 or a small group depending on where you are and what your requirements are. This also varies
from place to place. At the shop I worked for in the Caribbean - a busy day would be ooooooh 6 people. The centre I work for now - at our busiest time ever, employed 35 instructors. Chances were, in the Caribbean, that you would be diving 1-1 or in your own personal group anyway. At the place I work for now, it's more likely you will be diving with a group of other people you have never met before. Hiring a private guide removes an instructor who could be doing other things - with more people - and therefore we have to use two instructors where usually only one would suffice. In this case, yes, there is a premium to be paid for a private guide, and from a business perspective, rightly so. I will also say that when I am private guiding, the commission I receive is at the lower end of the pay scale, actually.

Discuss options with your local centre or dive resort that you plan to visit. It might be that you will be in such a small group of instabuddies that it won't really affect your own dive. At a high volume resort operation, you're going to have to pay for it somehow.

Cheers and safe diving,

C.

 

[gurnie]

As for the second question I think that varies on what the market can bear. If you are with a group, it is a matter of tipping the DM.

Now for the first question, as an instructor here is my take on it. I don't look for a tip, chances are I am in the pool already and on a good day I am getting paid, but I have to cover the expense of the tank / fill and offset the cost of the pool. It is one of the biggest expenses shops have in terms of training. We usually ask for $10 for "tourist" in the pool, so basicly the cost of tank rental they can get in pool and in most cases we shlep the tanks for them.

 

[ScubaSista]

In my neck of the woods, there are almost never "pool" sessions, as most of our confined water happens in the ocean. In that aspect, I'm not qualified to respond to this posting in regards to pool use. That said, I have received tips of $13 (which was AWESOME because I realized that the diver had so much fun, she simply emptied her pockets to express it) to $700 from a big spender that I barely did anything additional for! After years and years of teaching and guiding and of discussing this with fellow instructors, I have decided that there is no rhyme or reason to when or what we get tipped. It all seems to even out in the end and tipping is such a personal thing. Do it when YOU feel it's warranted and the sincere "thank you" that you attach to it will be just as meaningful. Gifts of food/drink/help/sharing a meal together are also great. Tips should never be expected, so they are always appreciated; they're a bonus! If someone goes out of their way for you, why not show your appreciation to the level you decide is reasonable and expresses your gratitude?

As to olyoly's posts: though he/she is coming across as extremely jaded in these posts, I also see the points he/she's trying to make. For those of us who make a living doing this, diving IS a business and we must be compensated for our time and expertise (not to mention costs). Can we afford to give away unlimited sessions to divers who need them? Probably not. The key here seems to be to make sure that both parties understand and agree to what's being sold and purchased in the first place. Not everyone learns at he same pace, but if they've signed up for six sessions and then need more, it should be understood up front what (if any) the costs will be for additional sessions. This part of my response is not directed at the OP

 

[Frosty]

Hey crowley -- GOOD ONYA . I just wish I could get that mindset through to my staff.