Insights from Rescue for BP/W users

[Cacia]

Maybe I have misunderstood. Are you saying that there is an agency that prescribes removing a BCD (BP/W or Vest) in water for rescue???


Richard

Yes, Padi.

 

[PacketSniffer]

Yes, Padi.

Under what circumstances are you to remove the BCD?

Thanks,

Richard

 

[pakman]

Under what circumstances are you to remove the BCD?

Thanks,

Richard

well its a judgement call. If you are close enough from a boat or land, then I think its recommended just to get them out ASAP without wasting time on BCD removal. If you have a longer swim, I belive they (PADI) recommends you begin removing the BCD to make the swim faster. But if the victim doesn't have an exposure suit, you would probably keep the BCD on for buoyancy... Other considerations would be if you had a surf exit.

 

[Bruciebabe]

Nobody has mentioned the GUE in water technique of using a purged regulator for rescue breaths. You use 2 fingers to hold the reg firm in their lips. This technique has many advantages, one of which is that you will probably be able to use enriched air or even oxygen depending on what is in your sidemounts.
Part of the WKPP creed is that everyone has identical kit, like being in the army. This means you can respond much faster in an emergency. The same applies with recreational diving. If you go out on a diveboat with 19 other divers all in regular BCDs, short hose etc then you are the problem by being the odd one out in BP/W and long hose. Not just in equipment but also in procedures.

 

[PacketSniffer]

Nobody has mentioned the GUE in water technique of using a purged regulator for rescue breaths. You use 2 fingers to hold the reg firm in their lips. This technique has many advantages, one of which is that you will probably be able to use enriched air or even oxygen depending on what is in your sidemounts.
Part of the WKPP creed is that everyone has identical kit, like being in the army. This means you can respond much faster in an emergency. The same applies with recreational diving. If you go out on a diveboat with 19 other divers all in regular BCDs, short hose etc then you are the problem by being the odd one out in BP/W and long hose. Not just in equipment but also in procedures.

Bruce,

Not everyone in the world dives the same kit. The real world has many different configurations of BP/Ws and Jackets/Vests. We have to deal with it.


Richard

 

[Darnold9999]

Very interesting thread. Learned lots.

Been diving a backplate since before jacket BC's were popular, wore a horsecollar BC. Webbing everywhere - was taught to cut whatever you need to off - webbing is cheap, gear is cheap. The idea that a BP/W is tech diving only is just silly and I suspect a troll, BP's have been around for a very long time, the wing just moves the horsecollar onto your back from your chest which makes a lot of sense to me. KISS at work.

Use your own knife - you know exactly where it is and how it works. Yes I wear one, but in a somewhat unusual place. Never would be DIR as this is personal preferance. Convenient for me to reach with either hand and will never get caught on something. Don't like the waist, it adds to clutter, but I am not going looking for yours so I don't care where yours is, how sharp it is or if you carry shears. I know where mine is, I know it is sharp and I know what part of the blade to use for what I want to do.

Having never tried it I am wondering why over the head does not work? Push the victim's arms over their head and after unbuckling the waist belt push/pull the tank/BP/W over their heads. As it goes up towards their head you get more and more slack. Perhaps it is too hard to control the arms in the water - just guessing. Will have to try it in my Rescue course. I suspect that the BP/W will not be an issue as the same LDS that sold it to me is putting on the course.

There is some benefit to being a "vacation diver" for quite a number of years. I have been diving in a whole bunch of different BC's. All sorts of weight configurations, all sorts of release clips, buckles, straps velcro etc. At the end of the day I think spending about 5 seconds on figuring out how to release is all that you want to take. If it is not immediately obvious how to unbuckle - cut.

Just my opinion and not a very informed one at that.

 

[Daylonious]

I would offer up this thought:

When rescuing someone, you have to put into your head that their safety (getting them to safety, or removing obstacles that would get in the way of them recieving life-saving treatment) is more important that what they have on, or how much their rig looks like it cost.

Not saying it comes easy to anyone, but do you think that emergency people care if it's a dolce & gabbana suit or a brooks brothers tuxedo when they bust out the shears and slice all that stuff off?

I'd say if you are in 'rescue mode' slice (hopefully with shears) through everything to get them out of a harness, especially if it's unfamiliar to you. Hoses, belts, webbing, whatever if that's what it takes to get them to a place where they can be helped.

I spent a lot of money on my regs and harness, but if you have to save me and it takes more than 3 seconds to figure out my waist and crotch strap quick releases, I give you full permission to go nuts and make confetti of my rig and wetsuit if it will help save my life.

Just a thought..

D>

 

[pakman]

I would offer up this thought:
I spent a lot of money on my regs and harness, but if you have to save me and it takes more than 3 seconds to figure out my waist and crotch strap quick releases, I give you full permission to go nuts and make confetti of my rig and wetsuit if it will help save my life.D>

My thoughts as well, but just be a little careful where you snip around my crotch snap...

 

[rmannix]

I've taught SSI Stress & Rescue, and most of SSI's specialty classes. After OW students are usually required to supply all of their own gear. As long as they have the essentials (BC, SPG, Alternate air source/Octo, depth gauge and timing device) no problem.
Doesn't matter if its a jacket, BP/W or horsecollar. Students should learn in the gear that they will be diving with. Having different configs in the same class is a benefit for all in the class should they ever have to assist (or be assisted by) someone in a different rig.

A good instructor would have used your BP/W as an example in the class as the students will surely encounter them if they continue to dive at all.

 

[shugar]

My husband and I are currently in the middle of our PADI Rescue class. Last night's pool session was largely devoted to scenarios where one would want to get the diver out of his or her gear. What became very clear was that neither any of my fellow class members (except my husband) nor the instructors was familiar with a BP/W Hog harness setup. Nobody knew the best way to get somebody out of a harness. When I played "unresponsive diver", the fellow who came to help my husband "rescue" me had a hard time discerning which buckle was my weight belt and which was my harness.

The instructors asked me what I thought the best way to get someone out of a harness in a hurry was, and I said, "Cut it." They said, "With what?" I said, "I carry shears in my drysuit pocket." And they said, "But somebody rescuing you is not going to know that . . . " And there's a point there. My husband knows, but if I get separated from him and somebody has to save me who doesn't know me, they won't know. I've been told that any serrated dive knife will go through harness pretty easily, but not everybody carries them, either.

Anyway, I guess what I took away from this was that the vast majority of the divers out there will not be familiar with a hog rig, and if you are diving on a boat or something where you have a new buddy, it might be worth a minute or two to talk about weight systems, crotch straps, and cutting implements before you get in the water.

i wore a bp/w for the 1st time during my PADI rescue class... my classmate (spoon) was in a halcyon rig too... my instructor's (axua) is also a techy and it was actually his rig i was borrowing (he was in a jacket type)

well we did encounter fairly similar problems - slipping an unconscious diver out of a hog rig can be pretty tough and can imagine it being even harder in rough seas

strange about the buckle confusion though - w/ a hog rig there's 2 buckles - the weight belt and the bp... in a jacket there can be the main QR buckle, the cummerbund, the chest QR and the weights... so probably the student (rescuer) was just a little flustered during the exercise (would happen)

luckily people i've dove with who had never seen a bp/w rig before always ask about it and i gladly "show them around" and discuss perceived benefits as well as any pitfalls (like in a rescue scenario)

and EVERYONE on the boat knows my rig layout... so if there's a problem, they know where the straps are, the octo, hell even where my lucky cotton undies can be found

good thing to put up though TSandM...

Jag