Insights from Rescue for BP/W users

[Doc]

What are you talking about? Have you every actually tried it yourself?

You bet, and some of the guys I did it to actually lived to tell the tale. All of the cutting tools that I carry are in perfect hone. There's the distinction. That- and having the training to deal with such difficult situations best as humanly possible.

It is a shame to hear that some agencies decided to take the view that if someone is using different gear that they just can't be helped, instead of taking a minute or 2 and thinking about how it could be done.

You're reaching a bit, here, but to a large extent, I agree.

During any Rescue cert class I always bring up the BPW scenario, but it still boils down to the same thing- know your buddy's gear.

Suffice to say, at the point which Rescue is an earned cert versus just another patch, the Rescue Diver is fully aware of the differences in rigs and has examined them. That said, however, what % of rigs are Stab Jacket BC's? 95%?

What's the ratio of divers who might need assistance, Jacket vs Wings? 50 to 1?

Got to go with the least common denominator a lot of the time, leaving the rest up to decide what might be worth further investigating. The card means you went to the "class", being a Rescue Diver means something different.

 

[Jasonmh]

You're reaching a bit, here, but to a large extent, I agree.

.

Hardly reaching... in your post you said "If you show up to an IE in a backplate and wings, your paired buddy who must demonstrate his rescue skills is permitted to let you drown and he will still get a passing score. "
My last comment was in response to that.

My point is that it is not hard to get someone out of a BP&W, and it is also not hard to cut through the straps (it can be done with most shears and/or knives). Not arguing about the validity of a rescue cert or ratios of gear.

 

[BSea]

WOW!! I wish i'd been logged in when this thread started. I've learned so much.

 

[jeckyll]

TSandM: You sure know how to cause trouble around here

Interesting thread, though sidetracked by ... well anyways.

On a side note: I discussed taking rescue in a BP/W with my LDS (PADI shop & Halcyon dealer, go figure). For some reason they have no objection to taking it ...

 

[TheYellowSubmarine]

People who dive in a BP/W are going to be diving in that setup after the class and probably have buddies in this setup, so it only makes sense that they take the class in the BP/W. I'd rather encounter the "I don't know what to do" scenario in the class and figure it out, rather than out in the ocean when it actually happens

What I found to be the best/quickest way to do it in class (cause you dont want to cut your harness 5 times) is to undo the buckle , raise the divers arms over their head (yeah I know they are horizontal, you know what I mean) and simpoly slip it off.

This definitely sounds like the best way (if you can't cut it). Taking off a BP/W horizontally in the water isn't the same as standing up. Next time I go diving, I think I'll try this method and the 'chicken wing' method with one of my BP/W buddies.

TSands: I wonder what happens if you "half deflate (or more) his back bladder" I wonder if you made him ...more "boggy" if he would still roll? It sounds like he is your regular buddy so that the only reason I am wondering... You have brought up some great points. I took my rescue before switching to this BC. (I love the trim/hover it affords with a big camera, I love the long hose, because we like to have options on the ascent timing and share air casually, definitely not DIR)
Ghostdiver just offers one more perspective that is legit because they are out there. There are divers that believe, like him, that we have no business in this equipment. So, I think its better to hear them out than shut them down. (not meaning you, just generically) You are very bright. I think you should just continue to ask all these questions and then just decide every thing for yourself. That may collide with DIR at some point. Hard fast rules can be limiting. I like to think my style is...hybrid. A fusion of anything I encounter that I deam "a good thing".

I know Rescue says to remove the gear, it's not my intention to undermine that. But, can someone tell me from a CPR standpoint WHY? I thought it was just a drag issue (until you reach the boat)
And can someone tell me why you would remove an unconscious person's flotation?

I'd agree with removing a bit of air from the wing. If you float too high on your back in the water, you're more likely to roll about. Try it for yourself, just lying on your back. I always let a bit of air out of my BC if I'm on my back swimming on the surface back to the boat.

When I did my rescue I think the gear removal is because it takes a little bit of time, so that by the time you get to the boat, the gear is off and its quicker to get them in the boat.

 

[Brewone0to]

A note specific for clarification...

I say 1 or 2 out of 20... specific to my region... the northeast US. I've never seen a diver diving this in the Bahamas, Mexico, Central America, Australia etc... Recreational spots. The guys I know in the Northeast US are moving more to this, but the number is still only 1 o2 out of 20.

Funny, I live in Florida and see them all the time.
Literally evrywhere I go. The Keys,East Florida,Carribean(to include Mexico)Cozumel,Belize,Caymans.
You know ,I just can't think of ever going anywhere to dive when I didn't see at least 1 there.
Except maybe a few of those solo dives(oops ,I forgot mine setup was there then)
I personally would have demanded an IMMEDIATE REFUND if treated the way you indicated.
Of course, if someone ever cut my gear just because they didn't like it.(because of style,color or any other reason other than life perserving)
I would award them with a comp trip to Cozumel or some other nice (DEEP) wall,and would hog-ring their weights onand shut off their air tightly with pliers.
Oh and return the cutting favor by jabbing their BCD with my knife.
So, if you ever want a free vacation to an exotic location,just keep that wonderful attitude of yours, and maybe you'll run across some nice,appreciative person like me someday.

 

[cummings66]

I believe the idea is that a rescue class should learn to deal with BP/W users. They're here to stay, and getting more and more popular to boot. It's not that much harder to get a person out of one than it is a regular BC. A person just needs to be open to different things and not have a negative attitude towards them. It's not something reserved to tech only divers, and most of us that use them do not dress them up to look like a BC because then what is the point?

The issue is that a diver was insulted in front of a class for wearing one, that was wrong in so many ways that I can't begin to count.

A diver is a diver, one in need of rescue should get the proper attention regardless of their gear worn and at least around here BP/W's do get mentioned as early as OW classes.

GD, I'm curious, where in the midwest did you manage to dive that you saw no BP/W's? You know right now almost every diver I've seen in the last month has been wearing them, but I think that's because they're the more hardcore diver who's willing to brave 38 degree temps to have fun. Diving is supposed to be fun, not a sport where we insult somebody because their choice in equipment doesn't match mine. In fact on our new years dive I'd say they outnumbered conventional BC's 3 to 1.

 

[D_B]

I just have to comment on this ...
TSandM you always have a good point, observation, or comment ... I don't know why it always seams to spark such debate
My rescue instructor pointed out the differences in out our DM's BP/W setup and what we might do to remove it ... just like he pointed out how to remove other setups as well ... didn't say anything about "crap" though

DB

 

[jread]

Hi all,

This will actually be my first post; I wasn't too sure about diving (argh! the pun!) in on such a contenious issue but what the hell...

I'm a rec diver (PADI rescue) who recently bought a BP/W set up. The reasons I bought this:

1) economics- the rig was about the same price a a nice back inflate at my LDS. So people turning up for rec dives with BP/W set-ups are not necessarily trust-fund kids show offs.

2) durability- the modular construction means that if one part goes, I can replace it myself without too much hassle or expense (maybe this goes under economics as well?).

3) flexibility- I got the set-up i wanted, right bouyancy, right weighting and trim.

4) efficiency/comfort- great in the water! my trim is perfect, bouyancy control is sweet and now I'm fast enough that I have to wait for my buddy to catch up all the time

5) future proof- if I decide to get into tec diving, I have a start on the gear.

That being said, there are a couple of things I did to make the rig more rec diver friendly, which maybe other people have already done. First, I made sure that I have a nice bright buckle on my weight-belt. Makes me look like a fashion victim, but the pre-dive with the buddy is much easier when I can say "Just pull the yellow one". Second, since I dive with dry gloves, getting the rig on solo is a pain as the shoulder harness straps are pretty tight. Sooooo...I got a single heavy duty quick release put in on one side. I know the techies are screaming right now, but I'm just rec diving at the moment. When I get into mission critical stuff I will replace the webbing. For now though, it's a cheap and easy way to make getting the rig on easier and, importantly, getting the rig off. I trust my usual buddy to be able to get me out regardless (cutting or pulling) but if I dive with a trip or a new buddy then I can just point out the clip pre-dive. Seeing as they already have to undo the crotch strap and release my suit LP, another clip is probably not going to be a big deal.

Sorry for the long post, just my 2 cents. Or about 1.85 cents American....

 

[Divmstr223]

I didn't read through all of the pages so I may say something that has already been said but I believe that having the BP / Wing on during the class is a good thing. I am not DIR and do not wear a similar setup, but being exposed to new things especially during a Rescue Class is great!!

Out in the real world of diving, you never know what obstacles you may have to overcome while trying to save a life. If everyone was outfitted the same and everyone knew exactly what to do in the class, what's the fun or skill in that? I would have thought the instructor would have gotten a kick out of something different and put his students up to the challenge of it.....:huh: