Insights from Rescue for BP/W users

[Darnold9999]

To the medical pros out there who responded, thank you. Was away all day finding ways to pay for all of this so missed all the fireworks!!! Great answers. I think I got from the responses:

For most of us(assume basic CPR training), try a couple of breaths ASAP, might just work even if you are close to the boat. If that doesn't work hightail for the boat/shore. If you feel confident that you know what you are doing a few more trys is called for on the swim, but don't let it get in the way of getting to a hard surface. If you really know what you are doing - not most of us, you evaluate on the spot and do what will work best.

Great thread, I find I can ignore the static - must be growing up with many siblings. You learn how to tune out the noise - and the younger sister trying to irritate you so you lose your temper. Now I like my sister, but as a 9 year old she was obnoxious and a pain. I think she was looking for attention. --- She grew up however.

 

[OE2X]

To Whom It May Concern:

This thread has been heavily edited to get it back on track. Many of you decided to go against the Terms Of Service – TOS and post inflammatory, accusatory and personal attacks. These posts have been deleted. Many other posts were deleted because while they weren’t directly TOS violations they were responses to violations.

Some of you had posts that had information that was directed at the original discussion, but had to be edited because they included personal attacks. These posts have been allowed minus the assaults.

Of the nearly 250 original posts all but approximately 100 were either deleted or edited. Because of this, only the worst offenders will be getting PM’s explaining why your posts were affected.

The Kraken warned you to get civilized -twice. My warning is the last. Keep it on topic and do not degenerate into slanderous attacks. If any of you do, then I will close this thread - the topic of which is excellent.

Should any of you decide you can’t abide by these rules and post in a derogatory fashion, then you will be recommended for a five day suspension from this board.

Carry on.

Oe2x

 

[Rick Murchison]

This thread has built quickly
As a Rescue instructor, here are some thoughts...
(1) We try to expose our students to as many different "common" rigs as possible during the class, including BP/W.
(2) We show them the ways we've figured out that work to get the victim out of the gear, and we encourage them to find new, better ones.
(3) We require a knife or shears, and encourage both. As a diver you are always a potential rescuer; you can never depend on a victim to have anything you need to help in a rescue.
(4) Time is of prime importance. Don't waste it trying to figure out how to get a victim out of an unfamiliar rig. If he/she needs to come out of it and you have any doubt about how to accomplish that quickly, cut. (simulate cutting in the class)
Rick

 

[TheRedHead]

Many places are discouraging or forbidding knives - the popular destinations of Cozumel and Bonaire come to mind. Is this a bad practice in terms of safety?

 

[Darnold9999]

Absolutely, I have never needed one, but can think of too many situations where I might need one. Are they forbidding all sharps including shears etc or just knives.

 

[Rick Inman]

This thread has built quickly
As a Rescue instructor, here are some thoughts...
(1) We try to expose our students to as many different "common" rigs as possible during the class, including BP/W.
(2) We show them the ways we've figured out that work to get the victim out of the gear, and we encourage them to find new, better ones.
(3) We require a knife or shears, and encourage both. As a diver you are always a potential rescuer; you can never depend on a victim to have anything you need to help in a rescue.
(4) Time is of prime importance. Don't waste it trying to figure out how to get a victim out of an unfamiliar rig. If he/she needs to come out of it and you have any doubt about how to accomplish that quickly, cut. (simulate cutting in the class)
Rick

Good bottom line here, Rick. Thanks.

In my Rescue class, the instructor had never seen a BP/W rig (except at Alki and in pictures). One of the first things he did was have me don it and stand up in front of the other divers. Then he said something like:

"OK, class, what if you come upon a diver dress in something like this, and you've never seen it before, and you don't know how all the straps and buckles work? Assume it's your buddy and you bring him up from the bottom unconscious and you want to get him out of his rig in the water. What do you do?"

Most of the answers were, "Cut him out."

"Wrong! If he's your buddy, you should know how it all works before you get into the water."

He then took a quick look up and down at me, put us both in the pool, and in less than 30 seconds had me completely out of the rig, including unclipping my drysuit hose. The crotch strap delayed him maybe 3 seconds.

He had us all in the pool with our drysuits, dressed exactly like we would dive. He loved having the different kinds of gear configurations for everyone to practice with. Yes, he did have a phrase, "If in doubt, cut him out." But otherwise, he believes that it's a rescue divers responsibility to understand the basic workings of the different kinds of gear configurations a diver might run into, including re-breathers, FFM, doubles, etc.

It was a PADI class.

 

[dherbman]

Nice, that's how it should work.

 

[darylm74]

I dive a BP/W and took rescue last year. My best friend is the manager of my LDS and we discussed the problem with the BP/W and the class. He kept offering to lend me his Zeagle Ranger but I said that no one would be rescuing me in a Ranger; they would be rescuing me in a BP/W. After a bit of arguing and a few beers he let it go...for now. The day of the pool sessions, I partnered up with a guy and the first thing we went over was each other's gear. He had never seen a BP/W before but he didn't judge. I told him in a real emergency to cut the straps and during practice he acted like he had a knife and was going to cut it, making sure he wouldn't cut me or himself. On one of the other drills of, he got inventive. He had watched me put my BP/W on and noticed how it just kind of slid on once it was all lined up. He got me to the edge of the pool and pulled the straps to the side of my shoulders, grabbed the valve of my tank and slid it down my back. As he pulled me to shore, he kept my body in line with the BP/W and used it to help support the part of me left in the water till he got me all of the way on land. I believe this shows that knowing your buddies gear is a definite must but a rescuer has to be inventive and use his noggin for something other than a mask holder. I also believe that if you are a professional (DM, Instructor, etc.) that you should have an idea of how to handle other gear than a basic vacation set-up. You can’t control the gear configuration of the person you might rescue.

 

[lamont]

In my rescue class (with bob), I cut the other instructor out of her harness because she wanted to replace the webbing anyway. IIRC, I went for the shears and avoiding cutting the drysuit was not a problem. With a knife you'd want to make sure that you cut up and away and made sure that nobody's flesh was in the way of your cutting motion, but I think it would be doable.

And yes, my dive knife has probably around 100 saltwater dives on it and is still very sharp. I recently replaced my shears and even though they were rusted pretty good, they could still mutilate a penny pretty well.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Good bottom line here, Rick. Thanks.

In my Rescue class, the instructor had never seen a BP/W rig (except at Alki and in pictures). One of the first things he did was have me don it and stand up in front of the other divers. Then he said something like:

"OK, class, what if you come upon a diver dress in something like this, and you've never seen it before, and you don't know how all the straps and buckles work? Assume it's your buddy and you bring him up from the bottom unconscious and you want to get him out of his rig in the water. What do you do?"

Most of the answers were, "Cut him out."

"Wrong! If he's your buddy, you should know how it all works before you get into the water."

He then took a quick look up and down at me, put us both in the pool, and in less than 30 seconds had me completely out of the rig, including unclipping my drysuit hose. The crotch strap delayed him maybe 3 seconds.

He had us all in the pool with our drysuits, dressed exactly like we would dive. He loved having the different kinds of gear configurations for everyone to practice with. Yes, he did have a phrase, "If in doubt, cut him out." But otherwise, he believes that it's a rescue divers responsibility to understand the basic workings of the different kinds of gear configurations a diver might run into, including re-breathers, FFM, doubles, etc.

It was a PADI class.

Good instructor, Rick ... might I ask where you took the class? Sounds like someone I'd like to know ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)