Innovation in diving

[gianaameri]

I did not judge your dive at all (or mean to come across that way), much less to be a badly planned one. My point was that others apparently did, and in a regulated environment, an outside agency might have acted to bar you from making your own choice.

You're an adult. You, having access to the means to prepare yourself properly, planned the dive, made some modifications to that plan to account for the situation, and chose to do the dive. I have no issue with that.

Richard.

If you are competent (i.e. trained in respect of the activity you are undertaking) and have made a risk assessment, and on demand can present and defend your risk assessment and reasoning, no "outside agency" can bar you.

It is the exact opposite situation we have here in this incident which is ground for barring untrained divers in caves (i.e. the Spiveys had no prior cave training and no defensible risk assessment).

 

[drrich2]

If you are competent (i.e. trained in respect of the activity you are undertaking) and have made a risk assessment, and on demand can present and defend your risk assessment and reasoning, no "outside agency" can bar you.

Have you met the United States Government?

Richard.

 

[gianaameri]

I cannot believe that you are still trying to downplay / justify your decision to dive without a bottom timer, depth guage or computer. You have no way of knowing about nitrogen, oxygen, depth or time. You also failed to tell me what cave you were diving that has depth markings on the line. You act like you knew the cave but also talked about being into a new section that before you have not entered due to the size of the RB. You also stress about putting other lives at risk during rescues but I guess the rules don't apply to you. Care to explain why you don't post your dive on CDF?

Yes I do.

I know exactly the depths I am diving and I know exactly that I cannot enter a deco situation at those depths even if I were to empty my tanks.

I know the cave morphology and topography (detailed map, not the ones you find on the internet) and have dived that specific section many many times.

The cave line provided it is accurately mapped/marked gives you all the guidance you need - provided you know that portion of the cave well and its morphology and it is not an exploration dive.

It would not have been possible to do that dive otherwise.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

OK I'll play...which cave?

 

[Bob DBF]

If you are competent (i.e. trained in respect of the activity you are undertaking) and have made a risk assessment, and on demand can present and defend your risk assessment and reasoning, no "outside agency" can bar you.

It is the exact opposite situation we have here in this incident which is ground for barring untrained divers in caves (i.e. the Spiveys had no prior cave training and no defensible risk assessment).

An earlier thread, last year or so, discussed a missing diver who was cave diving, untrained, defeating a locked gate at the entrance to the cave. There is only one way to successfully bar untrained divers from caves. I'm not all that interested in caves however, I'd be the last person to advocate dynamiting every cave just so some idiot will be unable to make a bad decision.



Bob

 

[gianaameri]

OK I'll play...which cave?

I have given you the parameters (broadly) upon which I made on the day and under the circumstances a risk assessment and took a calculated risk.

This is entirely different from what the Spiveys did insofar they did not have the prior knowledge and information upon which to base their decisions (it was based on their misconceived ideas about cave diving and very little access to scientific/proper information about the cave and understanding thereof/thereto).

Granted that I broke convention, and diving in a cave without a Bottom Timer/Dive Computer is a psychological stressor, including in a planned dive for training/experimentation (i.e. a deliberate choice, and MY choice), please tell me "Why not?" - that is why the calculated decision was wrong and what could have gone wrong.

Which cave it was is immaterial to the discussion (and we should stay focused on the thread, that is a trained cave diver taking a calculated risk vs. untrained cave divers making the dive which the Spiveys did).

 

[ajduplessis]

Which cave it was is immaterial to the discussion (and we should stay focused on the thread, that is a trained cave diver taking a calculated risk vs. untrained cave divers making the dive which the Spiveys did).

No it is not immaterial. The BS is coming out your ears and you know it. You fabricated a story and got caught. The members here know the caves, please enlighten us which one?

 

[gianaameri]

No it is not immaterial. The BS is coming out your ears and you know it. You fabricated a story and got caught. The members here know the caves, please enlighten us which one?

If I don't know you and/or "the members," you do not know the caves I dive .

Which cave exactly is immaterial. Suffice it to say it is the longest sub-aquatic cave system in Europe (so it says in the book!).

A cave is a cave is a cave and has passages and lines (or should have lines if accessed by trained cave divers) and can silt out at any time, same as any cave in Florida or elsewhere.

 

[Captain Bil]

If I don't know you and/or "the members," you do not know the caves I dive .

Which cave exactly is immaterial. Suffice it to say it is the longest sub-aquatic cave system in Europe (so it says in the book!).

A cave is a cave is a cave and has passages and lines (or should have lines if accessed by trained cave divers) and can silt out at any time, same as any cave in Florida or elsewhere.

Once a troll, always a troll. You're caught (again).

Sent from behind a pint of Guinness.

 

[Drin]

Once a troll, always a troll. You're caught (again).

Agreed. A quick Google search reveals that exact phrase - "longest sub-aquatic cave system in Europe" appears on only one indexed page on the Internet. Coincidentally enough that same page doesn't name the cave, just like gianaameri won't.

Troll it is.

-Adrian