Innovation in diving

[TONY CHANEY]

That really does not tell us anything. I said a long time ago that I believe that the cave does exist. You just refuse to tell us the name of the cave? Why? So what is your point of taking a picture of your gear and computer. You want a picture of mine? It does not mean ****. I can't beilieve that even with a scooter that you did not go further. Hell even without a DPV, yes I own on, we did Peacock I to Waterhole (you can check it out) which one way is 2360' or 719.32800 meters. Do you have a point.

 

[gianaameri]

That really does not tell us anything. I said a long time ago that I believe that the cave does exist. You just refuse to tell us the name of the cave? Why? So what is your point of taking a picture of your gear and computer. You want a picture of mine? It does not mean ****. I can't beilieve that even with a scooter that you did not go further. Hell even without a DPV, yes I own on, we did Peacock I to Waterhole (you can check it out) which one way is 2360' or 719.32800 meters. Do you have a point.

The island is small, so the caves are small (I think I said that before in some other forum).

Jokes aside, I don't explore on scooter and the area I am working on has small passages and silts up a lot.

So, I scooter in for 30 minutes or so, explore on fins around and about for 30 minutes or so, and scooter out for 30 minutes or so... this on these two dives because I did not want to change the scrubber and like to keep the cumulative dive time to below 3.5 hours on one scrubber.

Glad now you are now admitting the cave is there. I always said the name is immaterial.

Keep on thinking and maybe one morning when you wake up you will say: "Ah ah! I got a "what if" scenario where a Dive Computer/Bottom Timer would have been a useful tool to save Gian's life that dive that day or prevent an emergency or resolve an emergency..."

I am waiting .

---------- Post added January 26th, 2014 at 01:11 AM ----------

Wow Gian...cant believe you are still beating a dead horse. No matter what scenario one will bring up you will go back into broken record mode. You should get checked out for Asbergers or Autism because you do not grasp what anyone is telling you. You are so focused on what emergency a computer or bottom timer would have gotten you out of. Answer is "nothing" . Neither one can save you. They are inanimate information devices. You tanks, regs, fins, rebreather etc...are simply tools. They wont save you either. Only you can save you. You used the wrong tools, or should I say you did not have the proper tools for the job at hand. You can improvise in an emergency, but when you improvise because of lack of preparation you can cause an emergency.

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You are right. The Dive Computer/Bottom Timer is a tool. It measures depth and time and can do deco calculations.

The point is I could dispense of such tool on that dive that day as planned to be done without the aid of such tool because I knew I could not get into deco and I knew the depths the cave having been surveyed and having dived that particular run many times and seen on my Dive Computer/Bottom Timer that with N32 on that dive/run I cannot get into deco (impossible, for all intensive purposes the gas would run out first).

Once a measuring instrument has delivered the measurement, the measuring tool has served its purpose and is no longer required (on land goes back in the drawer).

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

 

[gianaameri]

If it does not work one way, try the other!

...well, that is what my cave instructor always told me...

 

[ScubaToneDog]

The island is small, so the caves are small (I think I said that before in some other forum).

Jokes aside, I don't explore on scooter and the area I am working on has small passages and silts up a lot.

So, I scooter in for 30 minutes or so, explore on fins around and about for 30 minutes or so, and scooter out for 30 minutes or so... this on these two dives because I did not want to change the scrubber and like to keep the cumulative dive time to below 3.5 hours on one scrubber.

Glad now you are now admitting the cave is there. I always said the name is immaterial.

Keep on thinking and maybe one morning when you wake up you will say: "Ah ah! I got a "what if" scenario where a Dive Computer/Bottom Timer would have been a useful tool to save Gian's life that dive that day or prevent an emergency or resolve an emergency..."

I am waiting .

---------- Post added January 26th, 2014 at 01:11 AM ----------



You are right. The Dive Computer/Bottom Timer is a tool. It measures depth and time and can do deco calculations.

The point is I could dispense of such tool on that dive that day as planned to be done without the aid of such tool because I knew I could not get into deco and I knew the depths the cave having been surveyed and having dived that particular run many times and seen on my Dive Computer/Bottom Timer that with N32 on that dive/run I cannot get into deco (impossible, for all intensive purposes the gas would run out first).

Once a measuring instrument has delivered the measurement, the measuring tool has served its purpose and is no longer required (on land goes back in the drawer).

So what you are saying is, since you have measured it before, no need to measure again. So if you are building house, a house you have built hundreds of times as a contractor you don't need a tape measure? Bottom timers and computers are more than measuring tools, they are safety devices like steel toe boots, hard hats and safety glasses. You only need them after you need them.

Keep on keeping on Gian

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[gianaameri]

So what you are saying is, since you have measured it before, no need to measure again. So if you are building house, a house you have built hundreds of times as a contractor you don't need a tape measure? Bottom timers and computers are more than measuring tools, they are safety devices like steel toe boots, hard hats and safety glasses. You only need them after you need them.

Keep on keeping on Gian

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Take a piece of rope and run it around your living room securing it to fixed objects.

Survey it and map it by measuring and taking bearing and distances.

After you have done it once, you do not need it to do it every morning you wake up. It will be the same line, in the same living room, tied to the same points, with the same bearings and distances point to point.

How many times do you propose remeasuring the same identical object (not one which you newly build each time) before you put away the measuring tool?

 

[ScubaToneDog]

Take a piece of rope and run it around your living room securing it to fixed objects.

Survey it and map it by measuring and taking bearing and distances.

After you have done it once, you do not need it to do it every morning you wake up. It will be the same line, in the same living room, tied to the same points, with the same bearings and distances point to point.

How many times do you propose remeasuring the same identical object (not one which you newly build each time) before you put away the measuring tool?

Going into my living room does not require the use of a life support system nor a line to guide me through it.

Your analogy of the situation holds no water my friend. I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you, but not to others.

Your continued defense of your decision to dive without an informational/chronograph device has made the perception of you as a safe diver unfavorable.

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[gianaameri]

Going into my living room does not require the use of a life support system nor a line to guide me through it.

Your analogy of the situation holds no water my friend. I'm sure it makes perfect sense to you, but not to others.

Your continued defense of your decision to dive without an informational/chronograph device has made the perception of you as a safe diver unfavorable.

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I suggested a living room in my example as something you would be able to understand.

Imagine the living room is a cave filled with water and same exact thing.

Once surveyed and mapped once, it is the same day after day.

Of course, if you go in one day, and a line is cut, then that needs to be fixed... but the waypoints, bearing, distances, depths at each waypoint are unchanged (provided you are in non-tidal water like where I dive).

I am just trying to help you understand the reason behind my decision. Not trying to defend a decision I made.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

So I guess that you have bever dived the caves in Fla? Do you really expect anyone to think that a cave is like a living room filled with water? Tie off places in caves differ from anything in a living room. Tie offs in caves can start on the floor, the ceiling, the wall and then to the ceiling then to the wall, back to the ceiling then to the floor etc. Much like this: Mill Pond Cave Video

 

[gianaameri]

So I guess that you have bever dived the caves in Fla? Do you really expect anyone to think that a cave is like a living room filled with water? Tie off places in caves differ from anything in a living room. Tie offs in caves can start on the floor, the ceiling, the wall and then to the ceiling then to the wall, back to the ceiling then to the floor etc. Much like this: Mill Pond Cave Video

Never dived caves in Florida. Done Mexico with Protec though and once a tunnel in a flooded quarry in Maryland at night (me and my 16 year old buddy got lost in the tunnell, we both lived, it was during AOW course... instructor f-up, big scare).

You can tie off a line to your lights in the ceiling, round the LCD TV, plenty of tie-offs in a living room...

Now let's get serious Tony, what could have gone wrong in my dive that day not having a Dive Computer/Bottom Timer when there was not a chance I could have entered a deco situation? (maybe I have asked this before, can't remember).