Inexpensive Doubles

[Soggy]

Soggy may be unusual in today's day and age. Too often I see "SCUBA divers" who are inept in the water. Pretty scary. Watermanship skills are on an individual basis. I'm sure there were plenty of "water-illiterate" divers in the days before certifications as well, but they probably all died off as a result.

Sure, training today often sucks. That's a fact.

I think that what is simply being said here is not so much that "vintage" has anything to offer modern divers so much as that "vintage" points out by contrast what has been lost in SCUBA training today, such as proper weighting (not over-weighting and using the BC to make up the difference) and the use of tables (which visually shows the student how the time limits are affected by depth, duration, and surface intervals. You just can't get the whole picture by viewing a computer readout, I don't think), not to mention simple don and doff procedures which REALLY make one feel comfortable with his gear while under water.

It's interesting that these are the same things many of us here promote, including myself (and get chastised for)....gauges and tables, not using/depending on computers, minimalist gear configuration, balanced rig, etc.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Sure, training today often sucks. That's a fact.



It's interesting that these are the same things many of us here promote, including myself (and get chastised for)....gauges and tables, not using/depending on computers, minimalist gear configuration, balanced rig, etc.

maybe they could call it DIV.. Much less arrogant sounding than Doing It Right, dontcha think?

 

[John C. Ratliff]

What I think was meant is that you cannot develop watermanship over one weekend of 4 open water dives, with that being it.

Nereas,

That is a very perceptive comment, and very correct. Let me tell you how a lot of us in the 1960s got into diving. We were first of all into swimming. I started on swim teams at the YMCA before I was ten years old. By the time I got to scuba, in 1959 when I was 14, I had many, many miles of swimming experience. I had also been snorkeling from about the age of ten too, so I had been snorkeling in Oregon lakes, rivers and pools for four years (at least) and could free dive to about 40 feet before I approached scuba. Many of the members of our Salem Junior Aqua Club were current swim team members. We had learned to deal with cramps, with highly chlorinated pools, with exertion in the water, and could swim several thousand yards during our swim practices (it's worse now, as age group swimmers, when they are putting on yardage for their fitness early in the season, swim about 8-10K yards/day). Since we virtually lived in the water, scuba was pretty tame ("Wow, I can breathe underwater!!!").

My snorkeling happened in Silver Creek, at the Silver Creek Falls YMCA camp, and the water temp was in the low 50s, and in rivers such as the North Santiam. During some YMCA camps, we would go to the middle of the lake and free dive to the bottom at about 40 feet to see how deep the mud was there (I could put my arm down into the mud as far as my shoulder without much resistance). We saw trout and other fish in the water. I actually caught some that my family, fishing with rod and lines, lost to entanglement; those fish were still caught, but caught by a stump in a reservoir, not by the fisherman anymore. Here's a link to the camp I'm talking about, only the pond we snorkeled is now being used by canoes:

http://www.salemymcacamps.com/CSC specialty.html

What I'm saying is that scuba is attracting a different sort of people now, those who do not have experience in the water, and who are uncomfortable in water. They are scuba-gear dependent; if something goes wrong, they sometimes don't know how to cope. That is some of the difference I see now verses in the 1950-60s when I was growing up.

SeaRat

 

[ekewaka]

SeaRat,

I think you may be right. My experience was similar to yours. I learned to swim about the time I learned to walk. When I was a kid, my parents had a pool in the back yard, and I was in it every day. I spent as much time on the bottom of the pool as I did on the surface. I did a lot of free diving in the lakes that I scuba dive in now. We never had any way of measuring the depth, but it was probably about 40 or 50 feet. I was also on a swim team for ten years. By the time I took a scuba class two years ago, I had over twenty years, and probably over a thousand miles of swimming experience. For the last few years I have not had time to get to the pool very often, and I am out of shape, but I can still swim 4000 yards without stopping.

For a while I didn't believe what I was reading here on SB about the problems divers were having, things like not being able to breath without a mask, or panicking when the reg is knocked out of their mouth. I just didn't understand how that was possible, but now I have actually seen it. Divers will panic over the most ridiculous things, and it is because they don't have that high degree of watermanship. They even have a fear of the water, and they are dependent on their gear to protect them from that fear.

I am not saying that I am an excellent scuba diver, not by any means. I still have a lot to learn, but I definitely have an advantage over most of the other people who are just starting out, and it is because my experience and comfort in the water.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

These are photos of my sons swimming, and show what I'm talking about with being comfortable in the water.

SeaRat

 

[Nemrod]

SeaRat, the people you got out of that overturned boat, they turned out OK?

Divers of the 50 and 60s, even into the 70s were largely water people, people who loved the water, were totally comfortable in it, on it, under it, they saw scuba as a natural extension of their water sports. Now we have here on this board discussions questioning if scuba is even a sport! Imagine that! Divers of today are largely NOT water people, they know nothing about water, the sea, boats, swimming or anything else and many are actually quite afraid of the water. They saw a pretty commercial some place and decided they wanted to do that, like bungee jumping or para sailing. They simply are not the same type of people--for the most part.

N

 

[dbg40]

First, Thanks Soggy, for sticking around for an intelligent give and take. And thay you everyone else for not returning stupid inflamatory comments around. I may not be getting my point across with the comment about the history of the sport. I believe that Soggy, and many others like him, (GUE style of diving) have actually allready taken the history course without knowing it. They have returned to the basic style of exellent ability in the water. They have no doubt adapted the sport to thier own needs as a cave driven society of divers, and thier need for certain specialized gear. I have personally seen Soggy in the water, and can say first hand that he has outstanding skills as a diver. If you were to strip him of his tech gear, he would no doubt have the same skills as any "old school frogman" He, and others like him, AND, like us, have learned from the basics of good practice. That is where the history of the sport has tought us. Standard issue new divlets are not taught these skills, and are, for the most part, a horror in the water. Masses of flapping, creatures banging into everything in sight. Not necessarily thier fault as much as the fault of the instructor. I remember MANY years ago in a localk shop, a very heavy man (+300 lbs)coming in and asking "so, what's it gonna take to get me into this diving thing?"
Charlie looked him straight in the eye, and said, It's gonna tage YOU, loosing 150 pounds, then we can talk. Then if you have the right attitude, you can start. What are the chances you will hear those words in a modern shop? History, for these people, has been lost, and ignored, because it dictates a certain level of dedication to learn good skills. The current wisdom is to strap on overly designed gear in an attempt to compensate for poor training.

 

[Soggy]

These are photos of my sons swimming, and show what I'm talking about with being comfortable in the water.

SeaRat

Looks like me when I was his age. I hated being on the surface.

 

[Soggy]

dbg, I think I understand what you are saying now and I do agree with you. There's a definite trend towards "What new gear can I buy that I don't need to dangle off of me and my 50 lbs weight belt."

I remember MANY years ago in a localk shop, a very heavy man (+300 lbs)coming in and asking "so, what's it gonna take to get me into this diving thing?"
Charlie looked him straight in the eye, and said, It's gonna tage YOU, loosing 150 pounds, then we can talk. Then if you have the right attitude, you can start. What are the chances you will hear those words in a modern shop? History, for these people, has been lost, and ignored, because it dictates a certain level of dedication to learn good skills. The current wisdom is to strap on overly designed gear in an attempt to compensate for poor training.

A couple years ago, I was at Cathedral Rocks watching this guy that needed two weight belts clipped together to fit around him. He probably had at least 50 lbs of lead on him. The al80 on his back looked like a toy. I watch as his buddies literally rolled him into the water because he was so out of shape that he couldn't keep his balance on the giant stride rock out there. They were all laughing and joking. I was waiting for when one of us needed to perform a rescue!

Diving is not a sport for everyone, as much as many of the agencies would like to say it is.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

SeaRat, the people you got out of that overturned boat, they turned out OK?...
N

Nemrod,

I did not hear back from them at all. The kids were okay on-scene, and the older guy with the trapped leg apparently had only bruises. But I have no update from them.

SeaRat