Independent Doubles

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

The local dive shop did insist on a octo on each regulator.
Danger sign.
I have a comfort level with Scuba Junkie.
Not obvious why. Their website is not inspiring. They offer NO courses beyond AOW. They appear VERY inexperienced.

The pieces should all be here within the next 7 days I have a pool session to try it out.
Please work out everything in the pool, including weighting and gear arrangement. Doing on your first few dives is a recipe for disaster.
I didn't mention the camera because i didn't think it was relevant.
It is, because of the weighting, the manipulation, and the distraction.
One of my concerns is emptying the tanks evenly for trim but honestly I am not the most trimmed diver in the group.
Danger sign.
Going to overweight the first couple dives and work backwards on the amount of weight.
DO THIS IN THE POOL, BEFORE THE TRIP.
The tanks will be weighted.
Why?
The tanks will be weighted means I will have tank weights on them
You at this moment have no idea what weight you will need. Apparently you are not even planning to have a wetsuit.
It will help a little if one tank is emptier.
How so? it will help if both tanks are emptied at the same rate, both for trim and for gas management. If one should fail, you don't want it to be the one with the least gas in it.
If the shop does not require four second stages for sidemount divers, they should not require four from an independent backmount dive
Bullseye.
But, I think it is really more of a case of miscommunication than ignorance.
One can hope. But their website and things like requiring two octos suggests ignorance.
 
IMO, it is a solid, and flexible system if set up correctly.

I'm on my tablet so I'll link some of my postings on in rather than hacking together a typo-laden rehash. It will also point out some other relevan discussions.



 
Hola~ I am heading to out in a couple weeks. The shop I am using only has 80's but I will burn that in about 30mins. I am an older bigger guy so air consumption is higher. If I can get a 100 or even better a 120 then I am gtg.

Anyway, I would really like to use this shop. I was watching a YouTube video where a tech puts together set of 80's as Independent Doubles on a backplate/wing. So two complete regulator set ups. The local dive shop did insist on a octo on each regulator.

Has anyone ever set something like this up?
Independent twinsets are still reasonably common in the UK. It was the most common way to dive a twinset here really up until the DIR movement gained popularity and there are still plenty of people who use indies. AP do (or at least did) a set of soft twinset bands. I think other companies do them as well. Basically a pair of plastic spacers that go between the cylinders with standard cam bands to hold them. You either strap the set to whatever backplate/BCD you are using or you can buy adapters if you want to bolt them on. I can't recall who makes the adapters, might be Custom Divers.

1760050969940.png


I've never heard of anyone using an octopus with this kind of set up. One 2nd stage, one SPG and an inflator for either BCD or drysuit on each cylinder. There is no need for an octopus.
 
If your trim is not good....leave the camera behind!
If you aren't able to effectively monitor gas usage....leave the camera behind!
If you aren't able to complete an NDL dive with a reasonable gas quantity....leave the camera behind!
 
Your opinion. I've done it numerous times, and seen it done numerous times. For example, a long dive -- possibly planned deco -- in Bonaire; grap another AL80 and sling it. Takes but moments, works fine.
Maybe, but if the captain isn’t comfortable or they’ve never seen it, there’s a chance they won’t allow it. Since they’re not offering doubles rental, I’d imagine there’s a high likelihood of of not allowing independent doubles on the boat, additionally what’s OP’s buddy going to do?
 
I think you need to add a few more tools to your dive shed chief
and listen less to what you think, and more to what others know

View attachment 921600
Interesting

Thank you @jd. I don't want to go the route of adding mounting. We will be out for three dives. There is no room on the boat. I had thought about bands but it's to complex. Having the tanks shift was one of my main concerns.

Good to know you emptied an entire tank and did not experience any issues hopefully that is understood as well.

Your thinking on the redundant air source is exactly what I was trying to convey. Maybe you can articulate it better.

As far as the back plate or set up in general, there is a guy on YouTube that put a rig together. Its 4 cam straps on a BP/Wing
 
Maybe, but if the captain isn’t comfortable or they’ve never seen it, there’s a chance they won’t allow it. Since they’re not offering doubles rental, I’d imagine there’s a high likelihood of of not allowing independent doubles on the boat, additionally what’s OP’s buddy going to do?
I wouldn't have bought the gear if the shop/crew had not already blessed it. The trip is booked and paid for I fly 10/30/25
 
Independent twinsets are still reasonably common in the UK. It was the most common way to dive a twinset here really up until the DIR movement gained popularity and there are still plenty of people who use indies. AP do (or at least did) a set of soft twinset bands. I think other companies do them as well. Basically a pair of plastic spacers that go between the cylinders with standard cam bands to hold them. You either strap the set to whatever backplate/BCD you are using or you can buy adapters if you want to bolt them on. I can't recall who makes the adapters, might be Custom Divers.

View attachment 921624

I've never heard of anyone using an octopus with this kind of set up. One 2nd stage, one SPG and an inflator for either BCD or drysuit on each cylinder. There is no need for an octopus.
That is exactly what I was looking for, but I did just find a double tank cam band. A single longer camband that wraps around both cylinders but of course they are on back order everywhere.

That did make me think though. I bought a pony cam band and I just looked , the fold over flaps are 2"so that would give some stability. A prior contributor had mentioned just with the 4 cam bands it should be pretty stable.
 
I wouldn't have bought the gear if the shop/crew had not already blessed it. The trip is booked and paid for I fly 10/30/25
Yea, and maybe my experience has been different, but what they say on the phone to get you to book and what they actually allow once they see it, could be different, maybe not.

Apologies if it’s been mentioned, are you instabuddying or going with someone you dive all the time with?
 
Basically a pair of plastic spacers that go between the cylinders with standard cam bands to hold them. You either strap the set to whatever backplate/BCD you are using or you can buy adapters if you want to bolt them on. I can't recall who makes the adapters, might be Custom Divers.

View attachment 921624

I use a very similar style of bands for independent doubles. I used a single tank adapter instead of those plastic pieces, but the configuration is largely the same.

I found it reasonably – but not completely – stable. There is definitely a lot more wiggle than there is with a pair of steel banded doubles. But that wasn’t really an issue.

The issue came down to two things: one, the valve handles are backwards on one of the tanks, which makes the idea of shutting down that tank very difficult, if not impossible. If you’re not worried about the redundancy that comes from being able to shut down a bottle, that might not be that big of a deal. I suggest breathing from that regulator/tank first. :)

The other issue was the need to balance between the tanks. Doing it every 500 psi is overkill: it doesn’t throw off your trim as much as it would with sidemoumt. But you do need to balance the usage, not least for safety. That may have something to do with why they want you to have so many extra regulators: if you breathe the tank down to zero, they want to know that there’s still a secondary regulator on the other tank. In other words, they don’t trust you to use them correctly. Honestly, why should they?

And that, to me, is the real Achilles’ heel of this configuration. It’s a lot of screwing around. You keep telling us how you’re worried that you’re gonna lose your situational awareness because of the “beauty of the reefs“. That means we can’t count on you – by your own words –to do your job properly. And that can very much end in a rough situation. Either you breathe down a tank without realizing it, or maybe you do realize it, but now you have an empty tank on your back and if someone needs air, it’s going to be a struggle to make sure that you are able to give them a workable regulator.

You haven’t trained for this and you haven’t practiced this — and no, a single pool session where you have no risk of distraction and without the buddy you’ll have with you on your trip does not even remotely count.

Independent doubles can be made to work. If I literally could not in any way get anything other than aluminum 80 scuba tanks, there’s a high degree of likelihood I would break out my independent doubles tank bands and use them. It’s literally exactly why I built them: to be able to dive doubles when I couldn’t get manifold back mount doubles when I travel.

But I can tell you that I would put a *great* deal of effort into finding a better alternative. They have some small advantages, but they come with some significantly sharp edges. And honestly, I haven’t had to use them in probably close to a decade: it just isn’t that hard to get manifold back doubles anymore anymore. And I’m grateful for that: because they work so much better than rigged together individual scuba tanks strapped to your back.

ETA: I just realized: I built these before I became proficient at using a stage bottle. And I have not used them since I became proficient at using a stage bottle. I can tell you right now, I would much rather sling an AL 80 as a stage, rather than use independent doubles. @tursiops for the win! :)

I get it: all you’ve got are square pegs, and you want a way to make your square pegs work. And all everyone here keeps telling you is that really you need round pegs. I really do get it. You’re signed up for a dive of a lifetime, halfway around the world, the money‘s been spent, and you just wanna make the most of it. You don’t want to hear that you should be able to make an AL 80 by itself work like everyone else. You don’t wanna hear that you really, really should be leaving that camera behind because you’re just not ready for it. You want what you want, and you just want a way to make all of those pieces come together.

And it’s entirely possible that independent doubles may allow you to meet those needs. But it won’t do it without exacting its own cost. It will be more cumbersome, it will be more risky, and those risks literally could lead to a very serious error. I’m not saying you shouldn’t do it. I am saying you should read the objections that are being given to you very carefully. Understand them. Do what you can to mitigate them, by adjusting the equipment and improving your training between now and then. You have plans that may allow you to do that. But don’t get buck fever: don’t focus on this solely as the solution to your problems, while ignoring the problems that it will bring about along with it.
 

Back
Top Bottom