That would be a pretty boring video.
Independent Doubles!
- Thread starter TheBigPhillyFish
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That would be a pretty boring video.
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TheBigPhillyFish
Guest
Curios to here you and Andy's reason for hating independent doubles? As far as sidemount it has it's place, I tried it didn't really care to much for it, on boat open ocean diving. But for most of the stuff that I do, independent doubles is perfect. I can travel pretty much anywhere in the world, throw to al80's on my back and I am good to go. Now granted thats not the best set-up for say anything greater then 150', unless i am also slinging deco bottles, but to be able to travel lightly to different dive locations and have 160 cubic feet on my back is very nice. Now as I know there isnt a golden dive set-up good for everything, but versatility is an awesome thing.
And for all the posters that left links and info, thanks. I couldn't believe when I googled it, I couldn't find anything.
And by they way, which was some what important. I would consider myself a solo diver also. I may not always solo dive, but most of the time I do. I think thats why I was so attracted to independent doubles. Because I was already diving single 133 steel, with a 30 bail out bottle. And always did practice regulator switching drills, and never had a problem with it. In all honestly I think its the best system for my needs. Keep in mind, its not the answer for everyone. But when I saw the sidemount guys in FLA caves, i thought to myself, like the independent, just dont like it on my sides.
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DaleC
Contributor
East West
Contributor
A real question from a amateur low tec diver , does the industry instruct you in real world conditions that I talked about . I don't want to sound like a jerk and understand why they don't and better if they do . I must be fishing around to convince myself to take some classes . I have more experience than instruction which puts me in awkward position . The first good deco dive I made was on the moody a very nice wreck .The week before they had a double fatality and multiple diver injuries that were tec trained . Panic was the result of one death and the injuries. I took a tri mix diver on the same wreck who banged his head on his deco bottle when he did a back roll into the water from the side of my boat . He could have drowned .Don't blame me for being skeptical of those who are trained.
DaleC
Contributor
BTW. I'm curious what the benefit of sidemounting is over backmounting in an OW setting. I can easily manipulate my valves and use my BP and a singles wing for both single and double tank dives. If being able to stare at your valves is so important why do you guys dive backmounted manifolded doubles?
What would I get by sidemounting in OW besides having to buy yet another mounting/bouyancy system and then having to read all those threads where posters poo poo the benefits of sidemounting in OW anyways.
I dive BM ID's right beside divers who dive BM MD's and I'm still trying to figure out what all the hoo haw is about - In the real world we don't seem to be bothered by the differences. I guess internet diving is different that way. Perfection is only possible in one configuration and death is just one keystroke awa
What would I get by sidemounting in OW besides having to buy yet another mounting/bouyancy system and then having to read all those threads where posters poo poo the benefits of sidemounting in OW anyways.
I dive BM ID's right beside divers who dive BM MD's and I'm still trying to figure out what all the hoo haw is about - In the real world we don't seem to be bothered by the differences. I guess internet diving is different that way. Perfection is only possible in one configuration and death is just one keystroke awa
Your right, after thinking about it I think maybe winging it is the best way to do this. After all, anyone you meet who is actually still diving obviously survived and MUST know what they are doing! Training is for dorks!
It's mostly about preserving gas - back mounted independents, if you get a reg failure you pretty much kiss that gas goodbye. Sure, you can breathe it as it's hissing gas out but it's pretty much gone.
With sidemount, you can preserve that gas to some degree - close the valve, open it and take a breath, close it as you breathe out. It's a technique called "feathering". No matter how good you are at manipulating your valves with independents if you have to do that behind for a significant amount of time then you will ultimately cramp out. You are also pretty much incapable of doing much else other than worrying about your gas supply.
Manifolded doubles are easy, identify which side is causing the problem, shut that valve down and switch to the other post (if needed) and you still have access to your entire gas supply.
I've only dabbled with sidemount, but I did find a couple of advantages - first of which is shore diving, just walk one tank down the beach at a time! It's also pretty easy to trim out and control your position and if you travel, you can pretty much always ensure that there will be AL80s for rent.
For me, and it is a matter of opinion, I will push my gas reserves quite aggressively and the ability to preserve gas makes them a clear winner for non-confined spaces. I think that there are configuration issues with independents, which post do you put your long hose and how do you manage gas reserves and plan for having to share air. They can be addressed, but it's not for me.
(PS How is sunny Chilliwack at this time of year? We were there visiting extended family last fall, just around the time of the first snowfall. Very pretty spot.)
For me at least, I'd say that hate is quite a strong word!
See above for the main reasoning, which is the ability to preserve gas supply in the event of a failure - without task loading yourself to the point where you become a liability to your team.
Team is an important issue here - most team oriented divers will tend to have a preference for manifolded doubles. Manifolded doubles give you options, and the disadvantages of having complexity behind your head is offset by diving with people who are familiar with your kit, know how it works, can help you identify and not just resolve - but fix failures.
Solo diver? Sure, do whatever - it's you alone that you have to worry about. But once you start thinking about gas as a shared resource then manifolded doubles really come into their own.
Why would I spend half an hour doing valve drills at 150 feet? Firstly, that is a waste of a perfectly good dive. Secondly, a valve drill is a drill - an exercise used to train muscle memory. It is a stepping stone on the path to being able to identify, and potentially resolve a failure.
If I get a failure at 150 feet, I will identify it and determine whether it's fixable. If I can't do that, someone in my dive team will be there to assist. If it's not fixable, then au revior... time to call the dive.
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