Inconsistent message to new divers

[TSandM]

In part as a result of this thread, I took our OW students aside after their final exam Monday night and gave them a little talk on "diving in the real world". I warned them that they would encounter situations that would be contrary to their training, and that they would have to decide whether to follow that training. I suggested that they be very up front with dive operators, when booking dives, about their experience level and their desire to follow prudent guidelines (max depth, for example). I told them they would have to stand their ground on buddy checks that nobody does.

So threads like this are useful, because we have changed teaching procedure to reflect this issue.

 

[Teamcasa]

I will point out that new divers who have just spent weeks training with Instructors and DM's may very naturally be willing to follow the advice and lead of another DM who they can see just a continuation of the original staff they learned to listen to and follow. These new divers are often not only quite new to diving, they are now quite often diving in conditions and locations far from those they trained in at home, and quite aware that they are still beginners. They expect the same level of care and expertise they will have been receiving with their recent DM's and Instructors where they trained.

Rather than put new divers down because they have developed a level of trust in those they see as "much more experienced" and who still retain a lot of uncertainty in their own skill levels, we should focus more of our energies on any incompetent op's and DM's that put such divers into situations they are not trained for, or that are potentially risky for less experienced divers.

Sure, we could go back and forth about how incomplete the OW courses are but that's been covered many times. I think you are spot on in your assessment that new divers have been trained to listen to their Instructor/DM and why wouldn't they?

The gradual migration from student to fully competent experienced diver takes time and a significant amount of diving with people of many skill levels. An internet forum is just one more resource a student can use in their migration. Many here that have made that arduous trip sometimes forget what their first 50 or so dives were like, including me.

 

[Centrals]

Unless this was discussed and agreed to before, if it's a recreational boat full of random unknown divers, the response should be "Should I call the Coast Guard now, or wait until you report the dead and missing?"

flots.

That was the dive at Alcyone in Cocos Island. Straight down to 30m and waited for the school of hammerhead to show up.
I don't think the Costa Rican Coast Guard would respond to it.

 

[Bob DBF]

Sure, we could go back and forth about how incomplete the OW courses are but that's been covered many times. I think you are spot on in your assessment that new divers have been trained to listen to their Instructor/DM and why wouldn't they?

Because the Instructor/DM conducting your class has a different responsibility and adjenda than the Instructor/DM working on the dive boat. Unfortunatly I guess there is not enough time in an OW class to make this distinction.

The gradual migration from student to fully competent experienced diver takes time and a significant amount of diving with people of many skill levels. An internet forum is just one more resource a student can use in their migration. Many here that have made that arduous trip sometimes forget what their first 50 or so dives were like, including me.

If you fully understand that your bad decisions while diving can result in your demise, and should you read and understand the OW manual, you should be able to make the right decision before, during and after you are competent.

As for my first 50 dives, they were solo except when practicing buddy breathing on a double hose rig, I had no BC, no SPG, and the first 20 were probably between 10 and 30'. There is no reason to rush to go deep untill you are proficient with your gear and procedures. At that time there was no 60', 100', or 130' limit on recreational diving, you just worked up to where you were comfortable.


Bob
-------------------------------------
A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan

I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As for my first 50 dives, they were solo except when practicing buddy breathing on a double hose rig, I had no BC, no SPG, and the first 20 were probably between 10 and 30'. There is no reason to rush to go deep untill you are proficient with your gear and procedures. At that time there was no 60', 100', or 130' limit on recreational diving, you just worked up to where you were comfortable.

These "back in the day" reminiscences are interesting ... but really don't pertain to today's new diver. People don't learn on double-hose rigs anymore, buddy breathing isn't taught until you reach DM level, and we should certainly not be encouraging new divers to go solo.

We can argue ad infinitum about what was, what is, and what should be ... but this forum ain't the proper place to do that. Let's use this place to encourage new divers to learn and engage in safe diving practices by the standards of 2012 ... not 1962.

I agree with your point about depth, however ... people get way too caught up in going too deep too soon. I suspect it's got a lot to do with the way "bucket list" dives get marketed ... and the fact that it's much easier today than it was decades ago to get to places where those kinds of dives are easily accessible.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[flots am]

That was the dive at Alcyone in Cocos Island. Straight down to 30m and waited for the school of hammerhead to show up.
I don't think the Costa Rican Coast Guard would respond to it.

Really?

The Costa Rican Coast Guard won't respond to missing divers?

That's a little concerning.

flots.

 

[gypsyjim]

Really?

The Costa Rican Coast Guard won't respond to missing divers?

That's a little concerning.

flots.

They may have been busy that day fixing a hole in their one boat that someone drilled to let the water back out?

 

[Centrals]

Really?

The Costa Rican Coast Guard won't respond to missing divers?

That's a little concerning.
flots.

I can't speak with certainty.
Giving the position of Cocos island. The missing diver could well be somewhere between Mexico and Columbia by the time the Coast Guard arrives!
BTW, every diver was loaned a "ENOS" transmitter just in case.

 

[Cosmographer]

Ok, I just got back from a dive trip (was heading to Phuket, but switched to Koh Tao due to whether conditions). And I can now say that the cure for new divers being reluctant to challenge their DMs is to go do a bunch of dives on Koh Tao! There are lots of great instructors and DMs there, but also a lot of pros who have no business leading new divers. Example: one instructor/DM jumped in the water and took off before anyone else even got into the water. A new OW diver followed suit, and as soon as he entered, his tank fell off his BCD. He had no idea what was going on, and with no DM/instructor in sight, I ended up having to put his rig back together at 15m (I had less than 35 dives at the time). This pro was bad in other ways too, but this is the example that most stands out for me. Once you experience a bad pro, they no longer seem like dive gods and it becomes much easier to question them. It also helps that the instructors on board were asking if I was a tech diver, LOL.

 

[supergaijin]

Ok, I just got back from a dive trip (was heading to Phuket, but switched to Koh Tao due to whether conditions). And I can now say that the cure for new divers being reluctant to challenge their DMs is to go do a bunch of dives on Koh Tao! There are lots of great instructors and DMs there, but also a lot of pros who have no business leading new divers. Example: one instructor/DM jumped in the water and took off before anyone else even got into the water. A new OW diver followed suit, and as soon as he entered, his tank fell off his BCD. He had no idea what was going on, and with no DM/instructor in sight, I ended up having to put his rig back together at 15m (I had less than 35 dives at the time). This pro was bad in other ways too, but this is the example that most stands out for me. Once you experience a bad pro, they no longer seem like dive gods and it becomes much easier to question them. It also helps that the instructors on board were asking if I was a tech diver, LOL.

Name and Shame?