In Response to "a Unified Dive Industry"

[rstofer]

There may be some coming on the market soon

I have given thought to opening an air fill kiosk. Maybe share space with a bottled water store. All I need is a quality compressor. I wouldn't do VIPs, arrange for hydro, O2 cleaning or Nitrox fills. Just fills.

There are some businesses that operate like this. You drop off your tanks out by a barn early in the morning and, by magic, they are filled when you come back in the evening. No store front, no overhead, just a compressor and a place to store a few tanks.

We used to have a 'van' that did air fills at Breakwater in Monterey. I guess the dive shops didn't like the competition and the city ran him off. I would like to know more about that story because it seems like a terrific business model for an old man. Dive a little bit in the morning, fill tanks before the afternoon dive sessions and bum around the beach in the evening. Maybe do a night dive...

This just keeps getting better and better...

Richard

 

[Slonda828]

There are some highly regarded service centers that use the Internet and UPS. In fact, if I buy from LP, I probably have to send my regs back there anyway. I actually buy my regs on eBay so there is no returning them for service.

And what makes me believe that the service tech has any idea about how to really do the service? I haven't always had the best results using LDSs. But it turns out that if I'm willing to send my regs clear across the country, I can get excellent results. Ah, the Internet and UPS.

So, again, what's the LDS mean to me? Air fills. I just haven't gotten around to buying a compressor. But it's on the list...

Richard

Well played as usual. I guess my last argument for ever needing an LDS is gone. Then again, where would I get conned into buying stuff that I don't need like tank bangers, underwater whistlers, air integrated computers, swivel hose regulators, and $250 dollar fins. Oh wait...I already got conned into buying all that stuff years ago. Thank God for Ebay.

 

[RJP]

Second -- IS there a "diving industry?" I'd contend, no there is not. To the contrary, there are several different "industries" that all have an interest in Scuba Diving but the interests may not be all that aligned. What are the two biggest parts of the "diving industry?" My guess is that they are: a. Travel/vacations; and b. Equipment -- with instruction coming in a distant 3rd. But it is the instruction segment of the "diving industry" that creates the customers for A and B.

DING DING DING!

We have a winner!!!!

As a professional marketer I can assure you that the biggest issue facing the "diving industry" is that there is no "diving industry." As Peter correctly points out there are segments of unrelated industries that all serve a similar customer with a varying range of products and services that are somewhat/loosely related.

However what makes this THE BIGGEST issue is that because of this, everyone currently involved in the industry is completely and 100% focused on "stealing market share" from someone else rather than "growing the market." (Stealing divers vs creating divers.)

• PADI wants more students than NAUI
• LDS #1 wants students to train with them rather than LDS #2 across town
• LP wants to sell gear to LDS #1's customers, and vice-versa
• Independent instructors want to train the same students going to LDS #1 and #2
• Atomic wants you to buy their regs instead of Aqua Lung's
• DR and Halcyon want you to buy a BP/W instead of a BCD
• Tobin wants you to buy his BP/W instead of a DR or Halcyon
• Cayman Tourism Board wants you to visit their islands instead of Bonaire
• Continental wants you to fly somewhere with them instead of Delta; neither care where you go or what you do when you get there
• If you go to Bonaire, Buddy Dive wants you to stay with them instead of Plaza Resort

The truth is, that in such a fractionated market it doesn't make sense for ANY ONE BUSINESS to try to create MORE divers because the likelihood that any such new diver would buy THEIR product or service exclusively once they become a diver is so remote, and so diluted, that it doesn't make economic sense. DEMA? Please! They proport to be the group that wants more people to "Be A Diver" but they really do little/nothing about it. And when they do (a-la the recent "in-flight video" fiasco) all of the market-share driven constituents that comprise the industry start screaming "it's not fair that my shop/gear/resort/agency wasn't featured.")

There's also a uniquely inverse relationship between the business accumen - and resources - of people in the industry and their proximity to the end customer. Think about it...the segment of the industry that is literally and figuratively CLOSEST to the customer (the LDS) and has the MOST to gain from creating a new diver is the segment that has the LEAST resources and marketing smarts to put together a campaign that would be effective. So they underprice training in a fight to steal share from the LDS across town, hoping they can make money on back-end sales, and then lie awake at night worrying that those new diver will end up buying their gear on the web anyway.

On the other end, the largest/most savvy/best-resourced segments of the industry (manufacturers/agencies/tourism/travel) are so far removed from the end user physically and figuratively that it doesn't make sense for them to try to grow the market, so they rightfully opt to steal share of whatever size market there is. And when the market is contracting, they fight even harder for share.

As an advertising and marketing professional who has spent 20+ years of academic and professional life focused on succesfully solving this type of problem, I know EXACTLY how to go about finding the answer, and implementing the proper solution. (I'm not saying I KNOW the answer, but rather that I know how to FIND the answer. Anyone and everyone with my background does...it ain't that hard really.)

I reached out to DEMA with a proposed approach...

I reached out to several training agencies with a proposed approach...

I reached out to several manufacturers with a proposed approach...

[Crickets]

Anyone interested in hearing about it - and in a position to PAY for it - is welcome to contact me!

 

[OldNSalty]

You had me right up till that part about PAY.

 

[PhilEllis]

Call me a cynic but the only way I see this occuring is by enticing more and more people to diving who probably shouldn't be diving. They are sucked into "trying it" like tandem skydiving but unlike tandem skydiving they are forced to buy hundreds of dollars worth of "personal kit" that in a year or so they will never use again.

To be shocked that the scuba industry is largely funded by "one-timers" who invest considerable money, never to find the time or inclination to dive again, would be foolish. Why would you expect scuba to be any different from any other adventure sport? I cannot quote the exact source, but I read that LESS THAN 20% of all new snow skis are used more than 2 weekends. They then sit unused in a closet. Only about 1 in 7 guns are ever fired. Paint ball markers costing well over $1000 have a typical original-owner use of less than 4 outings. Half of all canoes purchased in the United States are used less than 6 times. A gigantic portion of BASEBALL GLOVES never see more than a few months use.

Adventure and leisure activities in the United States are funded largely by quitters. Prosperous people (like most in the United States) have interests that change so quickly most seldom stick to anything very long. They also have the money, THEIR MONEY, that they use to fund these personal pursuits that change faster than the seasons. The avid participants in most of these activities benefit greatly from these "quitters". The added volume consumed by the "quitters" makes for larger manufacturing volumes. This results in lower prices for everyone, especially the avid participants. This results in a wider distribution network, which benefits those who use the network the most.

Maybe not pretty in the scuba industry, but certainly not unique when compared to other adventure sports.

To imply that large number of people learn to dive that shouldn't, simply because they enjoy it less than we do, is short sighted. They alone get to determine how much they enjoy it and how my they spend for the privilege. Most are not "suckered" into trying diving. They try it because they want to and they spend because they have the money and think it is of value.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

 

[cool_hardware52]

As an advertising and marketing professional who has spent 20+ years of academic and professional life focused on succesfully solving this type of problem, I know EXACTLY how to go about finding the answer, and implementing the proper solution. (I'm not saying I KNOW the answer, but rather that I know how to FIND the answer. Anyone and everyone with my background does...it ain't that hard really.)

I reached out to DEMA with a proposed approach...

I reached out to several training agencies with a proposed approach...

I reached out to several manufacturers with a proposed approach...

[Crickets]

Anyone interested in hearing about it - and in a position to PAY for it - is welcome to contact me!

Ok about how much would this analysis cost?

PM if you prefer. Seems like this is exactly the kinda of ammo the ring leaders need for the Chicago Meeting.

Tobin

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well played as usual. I guess my last argument for ever needing an LDS is gone. Then again, where would I get conned into buying stuff that I don't need like tank bangers, underwater whistlers, air integrated computers, swivel hose regulators, and $250 dollar fins. Oh wait...I already got conned into buying all that stuff years ago. Thank God for Ebay.

... so you can con someone else into buying it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DaleC]

Phil I agree with everything you said in your last post (almost).

The problem is, if you market a business on that model you must expect the boom bust cycle. Remember Nordic walking classes and poles. It was a good business for a while but I wouldn't invest in them now. Diving had it's inception, growth, hay day and now is suffering under the weight of its own success. Not to PADI bash, but (for example) when an agency as large as it sets out to train everybody to be a dive professional is it any wonder that the market becomes saturated with dive professionals. Is the problem not enough students or too many instructors?

I just think it is unrealistic to assume the growth rate numbers of new entry level divers, ready to consume the products and services of the industry, will continue in an upward curve indefinitely. Diving is too front heavy (focussed at the entry level diver) and not enough effort has been placed on developing depth.

The innovative businessman should be thinking how he/she can differenciate themselves and provide better service or a niche service currently not being delivered. I note that Tobin for example dedicates a lot of effort to personal customer service. This is probably the one feature of his business that gets commented the most about on this board. I would be curious as to how effective that is to his required bottom line. In the grand scheme of things is spending the time answering questions about products worth it or not? He and his product are synonomous so that people feel they are dealing with a person and not a faceless corporation. You pick up the phone and talk to the head of the company about the BP/W you want to buy. Maybe that's just him but it's also a great marketing strategy.

I am reminded of a gloomy prediction I read about the auto industry long before it's current collapse. For years the industry anticipated selling X number of new cars/year based on the traditional ability of the market place to buy new vehicles (not everybody could afford one until they saved a certain amount of money). The sales were moderate but predictable. Then the auto makers got greedy and began offering incentives to buyers. No interest loans, cash back, no initial payments, lowered qualifying... The effect was that both current and future purchasers bought new cars in a short amount of time. They basically over sold the market. There was an upswing in sales that could not be maintained and then a bust when the anticipated ongoing sales dried up (the future purchasers had already bought cars ahead of their traditional timetable).

 

[offthewall1]

If you're the shop is so successful and is "LDS of the Future", then why:

1.) have you been trying to sell your shop?

reference: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/gear-equipment-classifieds/237435-dive-shop-sale-130k.html


2.) then trying to sell off 50% for $100k when no one bought it?

reference: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/help-wanted/297456-partner-wanted-great-opportunity.html


3.) why do you only want to pay your Dive Shop manager $325 per week ($17k per year)

reference http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/help-wanted/297691-wanted-dive-shop-manager.html​

I mean is this the criteria for what manufacturers consider to be the "LDS of the Future" ?

If so, please name these manufacturers....

Usually I would ignore ignorance... but family comes first and taking care of sick in-laws, one with Alzheimers... all while trying to run two businesses has taken it's toll... and something has to give. The most attractive thing to sell that should attract an intelligent buyer is the store... Cheers

 

[offthewall1]

There may be some coming on the market soon . Just kidding. I do not wish anyone bankruptcy unless they sit back and do nothing to adjust for the times. Flexibility will take a business a long way (not all the way but a long way). I will support an LDS that is genuinely trying to keep up with the times but tend to steer clear of any shop that "curses the evil giants" as the OP did. I go places to buy things...not to see drama unfold.

And so you will always pay more than you have to... as no one beats our prices...

Cheers