I'm 71 and DAN won't insure me -- now what?

[fmerkel]

Thanks. Did not know it was a state by state issue.

 

[Scubagolf]

California resident with the Preferred Policy. The age exclusion language in this policy is...

INDIVIDUAL TERMINATION OF INSURANCE
DATE INSURANCE ENDS
Coverage automatically ends on the first of the following dates:

1. the date the Policy ends;
2. the date Insurance ends for the Insured’s class;
3. the end of the period for which the last premium has been paid;
4. the premium due date coinciding with or next following the date the Insured attains age 70, unless the Policyholder has granted the Insured a written exemption which allows them to be an Insured after age 70; or
5. the premium due date coinciding with or next following the date the Insured ceases to be a dues paying Member in good stand- ing with the Policyholder, as defined under Definitions.

I turn 70 next November and my policy will renew the following June. This means my policy will lapse in a little over a year from now.

 

[Scubagolf]

I won't mind self-insuring for dive accidents, but there are trips/operators who require DAN insurance, so I may need to fast forward a few bucket trips.

 

[ibj40]

California resident with the Preferred Policy. The age exclusion language in this policy is...

INDIVIDUAL TERMINATION OF INSURANCE
DATE INSURANCE ENDS
Coverage automatically ends on the first of the following dates:

1. the date the Policy ends;
2. the date Insurance ends for the Insured’s class;
3. the end of the period for which the last premium has been paid;
4. the premium due date coinciding with or next following the date the Insured attains age 70, unless the Policyholder has granted the Insured a written exemption which allows them to be an Insured after age 70; or
5. the premium due date coinciding with or next following the date the Insured ceases to be a dues paying Member in good stand- ing with the Policyholder, as defined under Definitions.

I turn 70 next November and my policy will renew the following June. This means my policy will lapse in a little over a year from now.

Can you tell me where you found this language?

How did you acquire a complete copy of the entire policy versus the summarized "handbooks"?

Thanks!

 

[dmoore19]

Just saw this on the Dan Facebook page.


No matter your age, you are important to us. DAN currently offers dive accident insurance coverage for divers age 70 and over in all states except Vermont and Washington, and we’re working to bring coverage to all divers in those states as well.

 

[Scubagolf]

Can you tell me where you found this language?

How did you acquire a complete copy of the entire policy versus the summarized "handbooks"?

Thanks!

Go here: https://media.dan.org/cms/DAN-NUFIC-Preferred-Handbook-CA.pdf
Then to page 17 of the policy.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Are you saying that European health care will cover your costs like DAN would if you have a diving-related incident anywhere in the world?

Basically yes.
I mean, if you have any health-related problem (also not necessarily related to diving, any kind of problem: an hearth stroke, a car crash, some tropical disease, etc.).
If you are travelling outside Europe, you have to anticipate the costs, of course, and then apply for a refund.
Something will not be refunded, but most of the expenses will be.
Inside Europe, instead, your European Health Insurance Card will ensure to not pay anything.
At least this is how it works here in Italy...
It is called "Public Health System", I understand that in US you have nothing like this...

Here health (and higher instruction) are constitutional rights for all citizens, and the State (or, better, the Region, in case of health) provides them to everyone. Paying something fair for who can afford and free for who can't.
Of course taxes here are almost twice than in US.
But they are strongly progressive, hence poor people pay nothing, or are even subsidised, rich people pay really a lot.
Some Italian politician is trying to destroy this system, introducing a "flat tax", with the same tax percentage independent on wealth.
Luckily enough the guy (mr. Salvini) did not manage yet to get this result...

Said that, I have a DAN policy, because it is cheap, it is specific, and opens you many doors (at diving centers, when renting equipment, etc.).
It also covers some not-health-related costs in case of accidents.

 

[Joneill]

Basically yes.
I mean, if you have any health-related problem (also not necessarily related to diving, any kind of problem: an hearth stroke, a car crash, some tropical disease, etc.).
You have to anticipate the costs, of course, and then apply for a refund.
Something will not be refunded, but most of the expenses will be.
At least this is how it works here in Italy...
It is called "Public Health System", I understand that in US you have nothing like this...

Here health (and higher instruction) are constitutional rights for all citizens, and the State (or, better, the Region, in case of health) provides them to everyone. Paying something fair for who can afford and free for who can't.
Of course taxes here are almost twice than in US.
But they are strongly progressive, hence poor people pay nothing, or are even subsidised, rich people pay really a lot.
Some Italian politician is trying to destroy this system, introducing a "flat tax", with the same tax percentage independent on wealth.
Luckily enough the guy (mr. Salvini) did not manage yet to get this result...

Said that, I have a DAN policy, because it is cheap, it is specific, and opens you many doors (at diving centers, when renting equipment, etc.).
It also covers some not-health-related costs in case of accidents.

So... sounds like the actual answer to my question is “No” - otherwise, why would you spend extra money on a DAN policy?

 

[Angelo Farina]

So... sounds like the actual answer to my question is “No” - otherwise, why would you spend extra money on a DAN policy?

As said, at diving centers they love to see that small Dan card. The coverage provided is really minimal, if you look at the maximum coverage they provide (€ 50000 max), compared to potential costs of heavy medical treatment (which indeed are fully covered by the public health system). Also the cost of the DAN cover is minimal, something as 60 euros per year for a Sport Bronze.
But without that card, you get troubles.
In some diving centers, despite your certification, they refuse to rent you equipment or to carry you on their boat.
In September I was in Panarea, and I did carry with me two complete set of vintage regs (Scubapro MK5 and two 109 converted to BA, plus SPG). One for me, one has to be borrowed by one of my colleagues, who did not have the DAN card (nor personal equipment, he dives very rarely).
I was allowed to use my own "on my own responsibility, and covered by my DAN".
My colleague, instead, was not allowed to use my second set of regs, as he had no DAN, and the diving center was not sure that their DAN could cover an accident happening with equipment only partially provided by them. So my excellent reg set had to remain on boat, and my colleague had to spend 25 euros for renting the crap plastic regs provided by the diving center...
Hence, albeit I do not rely at all on DAN for covering the large expenses which could be caused by the need of serious health treatments, I find that having a DAN card (even the one with minimal coverage) is in some way a "must" for avoiding problems.
And, last point, probably the most important one.
The DAN policy includes RC (civil responsibility). It means that they will cover any damage I could cause to others while diving. This has nothing to do with health system, and alone is well worth the ridiculous cost of the DAN policy.

PS: the DAN policy is up to 75 years old here in Europe. Which makes sense, as the average life expectation, here, is 5 years longer than in the USA, possibly due to our better public health system, but also to other environmental factors (hygiene, food, weather, buildings, etc.).
See data here: https://www.worlddata.info/life-expectancy.php
So I renew my suggestion: if you are becoming old, consider migrating here.
Definitely Italy is not a country for youngsters (in fact the clever ones are emigrating) but is a very good place for elder people...
Also consider Spain, Portugal, the south of France, Malta, Greece...

 

[ibj40]

Go here: https://media.dan.org/cms/DAN-NUFIC-Preferred-Handbook-CA.pdf
Then to page 17 of the policy.

The Preferred Handbook that downloads if you use Texas as you domicile state says nothing about Termination of Insurance, and if you search that document for the term "70", "Termination", or "End" you get zero hits.

DAN Preferred Handbook (Texas)

Must be a State to State restriction, and I luck out by living in Texas.