If you were to design your own OW course, how would it go?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Academics:

For academics, with the modern way of online training, I'd utilize that, then emphasize material that students had difficulty with. I say this with the assumption that I can see what problems students missed. I'd include dry runs of all the exercises that are to be done to break up the academics. I'd use buckets/bins to conduct the snorkel/mask/clearing exercises I received from @Peter Guy.

Confined/open water:
When we get to the pool, they'd do the float and swim test (no mask/fins/snorkel option).

More pool time (8-10 hours) and open water dives (6). DSMB deployment on half the dives (alternating between buddies). Get rid of (C)ESA

All confined water skills would be performed in open water. People say that performing underwater scuba kit and removal underwater is dangerous. I teach in cold water. If I, as an instructor, cannot distribute weight such that my students can safely, in dry suits, remove and replace their scuba kit, well there's a problem. To conduct this skill in confined water only doesn't make sense to me, but I just go with the program as I have no plans of starting my own agency.

I'd require 2:4 ratios for open water, of 4 students to one instructor and an assistant (could be another instructor). But that's because I teach in cold water. I wish training agencies would step up with guidelines on acceptable ratios, rather than say reduce based on conditions. Be specific so that no instructor says "oh, I think this is okay, as the standards say it is up to me."

I'd add proper finning, back kicks, helicopter turns. Objective definitions of the various skills with some leeway, except for body position (say no more than 30 degrees) and depth control (1 meter range on all applicable skills). Most skills have to be conducted three times (definitely mask removal, replacement, and clear).

Otherwise most of the skills are good.

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

Just curious as to peoples’ thoughts on this.
Knowing what you know now as a certified diver, if you were to set up your own OW course how would it go?
What skills would you include?
How long would it take?
And how would you price it?

In this day and age of seemingly constant agency bashing and complaints about how training was incomplete and how people feel ripped off, this is your chance to vent about it and describe how you would have done things differently.
From what I hear, training definitely is NOT standardized throughout basic OW, and in many cases not even within the same agency. Some people are just fine with how their training went, and some not so much.
Is this just a personal perception/perspective thing? Is the average training closer than we think and maybe it’s the differences in peoples’ expectations that account for the discrepancies?

Do you feel your training was:
1. Just fine, wouldn’t change a thing.
2. OK, but there were a few things that could have been better.
3. Not that great, but I learned barely enough to keep diving and continue to learn more.
4. Was a complete disaster and I wasn’t comfortable diving because of the lack of training.
5. ^^ Had to retake OW with a different instructor/agency.

Thread open to any OW certified diver that has a comment (not just instructors)
What are your thoughts?

I WOULDN'T CHANGE A THING.

Now for and explanation.

@Eric Sedletzky I feel like you stole my thread, (and I mean that in all sincerity, no hard feelings), Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???, which is very similar to this one .


I recently posed the question on our YouTube channel and here on ScubaBoard, about whether divers both young an old, felt like the online material was just as thorough as the traditional book material. As an Instructor for multiple agencies, I always found it to be comical hearing divers bash certain agencies, because they believed certain ones gave better training. In my case, I am the same Instructor, no matter what agency I teach for. My question to them was always, "So does that make me a good or bad Instructor, depending on what agency I teach for?" I actually had a ScubaBoard member (who was an Instructor as well for multiple agencies) tell me that when I taught PADI or SSI classes, I was a bad Instructor, but when I taught PDIC / SEI / CMAS classes, I was a better Instructor. So I asked him to clarify what he meant. His reply was that since PADI and SSI offered online training, the students did not get enough information to dive safely, unless the Instructor was present to verbalize the same information.

So after thinking for a few minutes, I asked him if he believed that students were too ignorant or stupid to learn without him being way up high on his pedestal and present to verbalize the information to them. He started to back pedal a little bit, and said that he just thought that having an Instructor face to face with the student was better because students learned better if they can read, hear, and see the information all at once. So I reviewed SSI's, PADI's, PDIC's and SEI's online material (and yes even those hardcore agencies have online training now, and wouldn't you know it, even UTD and TDI have online training, talk about hardcore, pun intended) and confirmed that each student read, heard, and saw the same material as what they would have if they would have been in front of the Instructor.

People learn a lot easier now than what we did way back when, simply because technology makes it easier for us to learn. This doesn't mean we don't need the Instructor, it just simple gives the Instructor an extra tool, to help the students learn on their own and at the speed they want to. I believe the Instructor's role has shifted more on the evaluation side, in regards to the academics, than on the teaching side. We should utilize this tool to guide our students and help them transition into safe and confident divers.

Now in regards to the skill sets being taught. Well my Open Water class was 16 weeks long, 4 nights a week, 4 hours each night (256 hours vs a 40 hour course today). Way to excessive in my opinion. This works great in a college type environment, but for the recreational market, and with all the competition (meaning every other recreational activity that keeps divers from diving) it simply does not fly. The biggest thing that I believe people (Instructors both new and old, or recreational and technical) argue about, is the mastery of a skill. I have trained well over 1000 students, and though they have mastered a skill based off the minimum standard set by the training agencies, none lived up to my personal standard that I have set for myself. And here is what a lot of Instructors have trouble with. They feel that a student's skill set must meet theirs, but they forget that we all start somewhere. We have to draw the line somewhere (minimum standards) and give the students time to have fun and to learn at their own pace. Not every new student has the intentions to go 300 feet deep in a cave, using a re-breather, side-mount, or back mounted doubles, while being drug by a scooter, only to spend a few minutes looking at some wet rocks, then spending the next 2-4 hours decompressing while whistling the Andy Griffith song in their head over and over (no offense to all my tech and cave buddies, I had to add that in for dramatic effect).

Here is some food for thought for you, if you feel that diver training is not up to par. Take my 6 year old daughter. She has been learning to dive for the past year, and her buoyancy is spot on, her breathing rate is absolutely amazing (I know, I know, she has small lungs), but she enjoys her time under water simply because it is fun and easy to do.


Oh and by the way, she just presented her first science project on Archimedes Principle to her 1st grade class. So if a 6 year old can read and understand basic physics why do some feel like the current level of training for Open Water is watered down?


So to re-iterate, I WOULDN'T CHANGE A THING.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I got certified through PADI in 1998. It was a cold water rough ocean with limited vis type class so it was very complete as far as everything being covered. 4 full days, one weekend class and pool, and two days out at the ocean. A few people chose to do their open water check out dives on vacation because the local ocean freaked them out.
I was very happy with what I got, but I would probably add/ change a few things now that I know more.

I would keep everything that was in that class.
A few things would be added or updated. Pardon my ignorance regarding what may be included now in a full OW class, it’s been a long time since I’ve helped out with any classes.

1. More emphasis would be put on proper weighting. All we got was a generalization on how to weight but not enough actual hands on weight checks when we did our open water. They just loaded us up with weight so we would drop when emtying the BC, but then told us not to be an elevator diver ??...
I would reinforce the fact of how dangerous being overweighted can be. I would teach the 15’ empty BC rule.

2. Buoyancy control and staying off the bottom. A lot of emphasis and citing facts about fragile reefs being destroyed by divers crashing coral due to bad buoyancy control. The fin pivot would be replaced with hovering while laying flat. The other thing would be streamlining and keeping everything stowed and clipped away so nothing hangs down. A lot of reinforcement to STAY OFF THE BOTTOM.

3. More emphasis on survival skills.
I would make students do a mask flood/ clear, full mask removal/replace, and air shares in the ocean at least three times throughout the 4 open water dives. The first demonstration would take place with the instructor, then the other two could be witnessed by an AI or DM. The point would be to make them comfortable doing it and avoiding panic.

4. All skills would be done off the bottom. A fin touching here or there, or someone hitting the bottom inadvertantly, fine, they’re beginners and stuff like that will happen. But they need to keep working on it to show some level of competency by the end of the course.

6. I would add a very simple rescue lesson where along with the tired diver tow they continue to the beach and at least get their buddy out of the water onto dry land and out of danger. I feel this is important if OW divers are to be allowed to plan and conduct an independent dive on their own.

7. Along with computers, I would include something basic about the tables and how they work. This would give them a table to hold and to study and provide a visual which I think is important. I would do this so students would have a basic understanding of what computer algorithms are based on.
I would also explain (or try to) the differences in computer algorithms and what you get or don’t get for more money. I’ve personally learned a lot that I didn't know right here on SB. Computers and info is a constantly moving target so instructors would need to keep up to remain relevant.

8. I would like to see a little more done with skin diving and ocean acclimation, but I realize time is limited so perhaps just reinforce what is already in the book.

As far as gear goes, I wouldn’t have any rules per say about what they use. I know some agencies are strict about the gear list. To me that isn’t practical in todays marketplace. There’s too much different gear out there and a lot if different choices. They all work.

I also wouldn’t worry about staying in a skydiver position the entire time, heli turns, backing up, modified frog kicks, and the rest of that style. There’s time for that later if they choose. More emphasis would be put on basic survival skills and anti panic training. Comfort in the water not doing circus tricks. I personally don’t have a problem with vertical ascents. I think having a clear view of where you are going, looking for boats ect. is good. Maybe it’s a skin diver thing?
As long as your torso/lungs are in the 15’ range at your stop you’re good.

I don’t think any of this would really add much overall to the time frame.
I’m still shooting for getting all this done in two full weekends.
As far as cost, I would bump the cost by thirty percent to cover added time
and more help. DM’s should get paid I know, but they get to help with classes for free because of internships. But what if there are no interns? At least pay their gas and meals or something. They like their weekends too.

 

[Cap335]

A beginning course that I think turns out a good beginning is knock out academics first either classroom or online.
1 day of pool followed by 1 day open water followed by another day of pool and a second day of open water. I do this with private students and find that after that first day in o/w that they have a better idea of what diving is and are a little more motivated to do more than just pass the class.

 

[lowviz]

I'll offer just one thought. You are taking lifelong land animals and attempting to turn them into amphibians.

Nobody mentioned the 'first time breathing underwater' experience. It was so damaged for me. "OK, nice job, keep moving, next drill is..." Not seeing the forest for the trees doesn't even come close to this one.

Day one. Breathing underwater. Sometimes I just do that until my tank can't keep up with me.

 

[shawnhar]

With the caveat that I'm still a new enough diver to not know what I don't know:

I was pretty happy with my OW course. It was short compared to what many of you describe (just one (long!) pool session before the OW dives) but my wife and I came out of it feeling competent to do further diving locally on our own.

I'm very aware that this course just scratched the surface of everything we need to keep practicing and get better at, but I think it achieved the basics of:

1. Teaching us what we need to practice, enough that practicing further on our own can be productive
2. Teaching us enough that we can dive safely on our own, as long as we do that conservatively

A longer course would certainly have left us better divers, but I don't think that would have been an overall improvement for a simple reason: had the course been more expensive, we probably wouldn't have done it at all! We both loved the idea of diving, but had little actual idea of what it would be like, especially in our cold local waters. I suspect most new divers are in a similar position. Even a rushed training course is a massive investment for something that you think but aren't 100% sure you will even enjoy. Luckily we did enjoy it, and are already on track to massively outspend the OW course fee as we start to accumulate our own diving gear, but we would most likely have never started down this path if the initial commitment had been any larger.

I know that line of reasoning sounds suspiciously close to arguing in favor of skimping on safety to save money! But I'm glad to be a diver. And I feel safe about the way I learned to be one. And I'm happy that a larger (= more expensive) safety margin didn't get in the way of my summoning the gumption to start down this path.

I find myself wondering whether snorkeling experience should be a pre-req for taking the OW course? It was very noticeable during our pool class that those who had previously snorkeled picked things up much faster than those who had not. Things like mask clearing, purging a regulator, and general confidence in the water, start out vastly higher if you've previously spent a week or two in the tropics with a cheap snorkel

 

[RayfromTX]

The first thing I would do is a discover scuba dive or two. During this dive make sure they experienced the buoyancy characteristics of breathing and gain control over the buoyancy effects of Boyles law. Other than that these dives should be all about fun. After that you can begin teaching them the skills they will need to continue on as divers but always teach them in trim and neutrally buoyant.

At all times the diving and all the underwater skills should be done in a natural way and in the same way that they will be done for the rest of their time as divers. No training wheels to lean against. (off the bottom and off the knees) Teach buoyancy from the start.

Always teach academics beyond the current stage of instruction. By that I mean offer more depth than is required at the moment to help build the learning curve. Train them as intelligent adults no matter their age and never intimidate them or make them regret asking a question. Never fall back on cliches like "never hold your breath." Instead explain the consequences of ascending with a closed airway. They should never look back and think, "I was taught as if I was an idiot that couldn't understand a simple concept"

Also always remember that there is a big learning curve at first so they may not hear or comprehend what you just said because they are processing what came before it. That is ok because they will hear it more than once. If it is something they must get, then make sure they can teach it back to you. Make it fun and interesting and they will go find out more when they are at home.

This is the most important thing to me. If they do not demonstrate a complete control over their descent and ascent then they shall not be certified, period. If they do not demonstrate a complete understanding of their gear and it's assembly and care, then they shall not be certified, period. If they do not demonstrate a complete understanding of monitoring their NDLs and tank pressures and the ability to manage them, then they will not be certified, period.

 

[shawnhar]

The first thing I would do is a discover scuba dive or two. During this dive make sure they experienced the buoyancy characteristics of breathing and gain control over the buoyancy effects of Boyles law. Other than that these dives should be all about fun.

I feel like this advice might be location dependent?

A Discover Scuba type experience makes total sense in warm, clear, tropical water. But I can't imagine how that would work in my local cold, silty, murky conditions.

Seems like there's a catch-22 in areas where being safe in the ocean requires at least some minimal level of ability - but how do you achieve that ability without getting into the ocean first?

From my own experience, pool time does pretty much nothing to prepare you for 49 degree water with 15' viz

 

[Trace Malinowski]

More speargun and limpet mine training. My OW course was a lot like a US Navy diving course, but I feel cheated that I did all of that work and didn't get to blow anything up.

 

[TMHeimer]

I would encourage the course be given over a longer time than 2 weekends. I found that quite easy to absorb the multitude of things you must learn from scratch.
I would also add Rescue skills--important ones at least, ei. dealing with panicked diver.
If possible I would include at least one dive to 60' since graduates are certified to that "recommended" depth.
I may alter the swim test--make it a shorter distance, but require a proper stroke.
I would describe drown-proofing for those negatively buoyant trying to do the 10 minute float using both arms & leg while knocking themselves out, while other lucky bast$%ds float like a cork in fresh water (is that really a skill?).