Identifying a Submerge Motor

[suricatasuricata]

I have a Submerge motor installed in a short body Gavin. Looks like it was manufactured 2010-05-17. How can I figure out more about the motor? I tried googling the serial number but couldn't find much. I still haven't separated the motor from the tail cone so there might be more information there or a part number I can get. But I figured I should ask before I go deeper.

 

[Jona Silverstein]

The Submerge motors were custom made to replace the original Mako/Tekna motor. Submerge released these in 2007 and became the common replacement for anyone that needed one. Exceptionally well built. Addressed the issues and irregularities that came from the previous motors.

They run on 24v lead acid, 7S Liion or 8S LiFePO4, fuse it at 30A

Best used with an ESC either a Barracuda or a Venom.

If you need more info you can reach out the the guys at SubSea Propulsion. They bought the rest of Submerge last year.

 

[suricatasuricata]

The Submerge motors were custom made to replace the original Mako/Tekna motor. Submerge released these in 2007 and became the common replacement for anyone that needed one. Exceptionally well built. Addressed the issues and irregularities that came from the previous motors.

They run on 24v lead acid, 7S Liion or 8S LiFePO4, fuse it at 30A

Best used with an ESC either a Barracuda or a Venom.

If you need more info you can reach out the the guys at SubSea Propulsion. They bought the rest of Submerge last year.

Thanks so much Jona!

I did some looking through old archives of the Submerge website, my best guess is that this is the same motor as was (is?) in the Viper? Because there were only two motors around that time made by them: A brushless and a brushed variant.

I have reached out to the guys at Subsea as well. Hoping to get an answer when Greg gets back from a dive trip.

A few clarifying questions on some of the things you stated:

1. My Gavin appears to be powered by a 8S LiFePO4 combo, with a mystery BMS. I still haven't done a burn test but the specs in the manual state that it is a 24V, 40 Ah, 1000 Whr battery. From what I can see from an old gavin manual, the rest of the circuitry going into the motor compartment appears to be identical (relay, reed switch). Only that this uses a relay rated to 40 amps as opposed to the 30 amps for the original Gavin. Should I be adding a fuse anyways?


2. I just started messing with this like a week or so ago, I am still cleaning up the propeller shaft and such before looking into the electricals. The Gavin doesn't have any ESC, I assume that I could hypothetically install an ESC and also some form of a motorycycle trigger to have speed change. Since you mentioned Barracuda and Venom, is there a reason to omit Smart DPV as an option?


3. This also got me thinking. Assuming the motor is the same one on the viper, could I hypothetically some day stick the motor in an empty viper body and get a lighter scooter?

 

[rjack321]

Looks pretty clean

I haven't used a gavin trigger in decades but I'd think you could shift click with it with some practice. So yes on the ESC

I would add a 40amp fuse at the same time.

Finding a viper body that actually needs a motor might be possible but sounds challenging

 

[suricatasuricata]

Ok. thanks @rjack321! I think I will be safe rather than sorry and install a fuse. But should it be 30 amp or 40 amp? I guess I am a bit confused whether the Submerge motor can only draw 30 amps at most. Probably something I will find from Subsea propulsion as well.

 

[rjack321]

Ok. thanks @rjack321! I think I will be safe rather than sorry and install a fuse. But should it be 30 amp or 40 amp? I guess I am a bit confused whether the Submerge motor can only draw 30 amps at most. Probably something I will find from Subsea propulsion as well.

I don't think it matters much as the wiring is hefty and short so I would just use 40amp. You're mostly trying to protect against a dead short starting those batteries on fire.

 

[tbone1004]

@suricatasuricata that is the post 2007 motor that was wound a bit hotter than the original Gavin that it was based on. It is the same motor that was in the UV series and the Viper.
As said above, it is a nominal 24v brushed motor.

Fuses protect wires not devices, so the fuse size should be based on the size of the wire that you have running to the motor. The motor is capable of pulling around 700w so the wire should be sized for at least 30a, preferably 40.

The Barracuda ESC is similar to the SmartDPV but is designed for brushed motors where the SmartDPV is based around the motor used in the DiveX Cuda and SS Magnus DPV's which are brushless so the output is very different since brushed is 2 wire control based on variable voltage output and brushless is 3 wire based on variable frequency control.
Using those you can keep the stock trigger and the tap control will shift "gears", you don't want a motorcycle style variable pull for speed, very uncomfortable. The "gear" system used by SS and DiveX isn't perfect as it isn't truly infinitely variable, but it's more than good enough.

It is unlikely you will find a motor-less Viper, but theoretically it can be swapped over if you do happen to find a viper with a dead motor.

You are unlikely to get any support from Subsea on that motor so don't get your hopes up but what you get here will be better info anyway.

 

[suricatasuricata]

@suricatasuricata that is the post 2007 motor that was wound a bit hotter than the original Gavin that it was based on. It is the same motor that was in the UV series and the Viper.
As said above, it is a nominal 24v brushed motor.

Fuses protect wires not devices, so the fuse size should be based on the size of the wire that you have running to the motor. The motor is capable of pulling around 700w so the wire should be sized for at least 30a, preferably 40.

Excellent thanks @rjack321 and @tbone1004, I was thinking of the fuse as protecting the motor, but yea, it makes absolute sense that I'd want to make sure that the battery didn't burn down. Excuse the noob question, this still means that I plug the fuse in at the motor battery interface correct?

Either on the side of the electronic clear plastic panel facing the motor or where the battery plugs into the motor compartment should be fine, right?

The Barracuda ESC is similar to the SmartDPV but is designed for brushed motors where the SmartDPV is based around the motor used in the DiveX Cuda and SS Magnus DPV's which are brushless so the output is very different since brushed is 2 wire control based on variable voltage output and brushless is 3 wire based on variable frequency control.
Using those you can keep the stock trigger and the tap control will shift "gears", you don't want a motorcycle style variable pull for speed, very uncomfortable. The "gear" system used by SS and DiveX isn't perfect as it isn't truly infinitely variable, but it's more than good enough.

It is unlikely you will find a motor-less Viper, but theoretically it can be swapped over if you do happen to find a viper with a dead motor.

You are unlikely to get any support from Subsea on that motor so don't get your hopes up but what you get here will be better info anyway.

Excellent thanks, I spent some time watching videos of people on the Gavin and it seemed sort of counter intuitive to me that the trigger at 12 o' clock position was acting like a joystick. What I was thinking in teh back of my mind was having a trigger perhaps like a T-Handle. Like so.

But I guess reading both of your responses, what I am guessing is that all the ESC is doing is listening to "codes" based on how I tap the trigger to shift between speeds. So I could do this even with the trigger.

 

[Jona Silverstein]

Wow this feed has been quite active today.

As others have mentioned the fuse is to protect the wiring. If you have a good BMS that you trust and has a variable cutout then I personally advise against a fuse as overtime corrosion can buildup and cause issues. Lookup DiveXtras Fuse failure... Common problem was the resistance would continue to grow in the fuse holder on the battery to the point the whole fuse holder would melt and cause big issues.

Smart-DPV is a wonderful platform and I have supported them for many years but a VESC solution is truly not a good solution for a brushed motor like this. The Barracuda units have worked well and I have some in stock. The other one which Dimitri is working on is the Medusa ESC. Those have been primarily setup for DiverTugs and Suex units but similar idea. Adding an ESC eliminates the need to mess with variable pitch props for speed adjustments.

You can swap to a T handle but the handles that are on the gavin have proven to work just fine for many years. same handles off the makos and teknas.

 

[suricatasuricata]

Wow this feed has been quite active today.

As others have mentioned the fuse is to protect the wiring. If you have a good BMS that you trust and has a variable cutout then I personally advise against a fuse as overtime corrosion can buildup and cause issues. Lookup DiveXtras Fuse failure... Common problem was the resistance would continue to grow in the fuse holder on the battery to the point the whole fuse holder would melt and cause big issues.

Very good point. I don't actually know what BMS was used by the original pack builder. But the PDF that I was handed says that it "protects against over-charge, over-discharge, short circuit and over temperature.". I will need to dig in to figure out more.

Smart-DPV is a wonderful platform and I have supported them for many years but a VESC solution is truly not a good solution for a brushed motor like this. The Barracuda units have worked well and I have some in stock. The other one which Dimitri is working on is the Medusa ESC. Those have been primarily setup for DiverTugs and Suex units but similar idea. Adding an ESC eliminates the need to mess with variable pitch props for speed adjustments.

Excellent, I had no idea that you sold em as well! I thought I'd have to ship em from the EU. I want to first make sure that the end to end system stil functions (after I replace the prop seal etc). But, I will start looking into ESC after that. Any reason to hold out for the Medusa over the Barracuda?

You can swap to a T handle but the handles that are on the gavin have proven to work just fine for many years. same handles off the makos and teknas.