So...when I get paid $300 bucks to clear a jammed headgate in 10 ft of water it's a technical dive? How bout' when I get a 12 pack of beer for checking the cables under the dock at the marina? 
Icediving TEC or REC?
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DA Aquamaster once bubbled...
So...when I get paid $300 bucks to clear a jammed headgate in 10 ft of water it's a technical dive? How bout' when I get a 12 pack of beer for checking the cables under the dock at the marina?
Was that head-gate under the ice as well?
You are losing track of the point which was, in truth, a very general one anyway. When you are being paid to do work under water, other than in the training role, you are actually a "commercial" diver. The slippage around the edges of these definitions is awesome.
By the way, thanks for the tip on the dock cables. I've only been getting a six-pack!:wacko:
Ice diving is a little bit different from cave or wreck diving, since ice is a dynamic overhead environment, which can change during the course of a dive. The typical recreational implementation of ice diving practiced by PADI, et. al. seems to be a bit ridiculous, IMO. They put divers in the water connected to a surface tether (incidentally, any line attached to a diver should only be attached via a quick-release snap shackle - never a carabiner) and let them swim around the hole. Exactly what is the objective here? The protocol in that case is similar to SAR diving, only the students are given only a limited introduction to line pull communication, tether management, and associated skills. Maybe I understand a different definition of ice diving, but what exactly are you accomplishing by tying yourself to the surface, limiting your excursion, and just hanging about in cold water? Ice diving by itself is not a distinct entity, but rather an environmental factor that needs to be appropriately managed in the same manner as you would manage diving other overhead environments, weather conditions, tides, currents and other potential hazards.
Diving with an actual objective in mind, the dive is conducted as if it were a cave dive, since you can't make a direct ascent, dual regulators (doubles with an isolation manifold) are SOP, as well as a continuous guideline to the surface. The difference with ice diving is that the surface hole needs to be tended to keep it clear, and you don't want to run #24 line against the ice, as any tension on it can actually embed the line in the ice. In this case, a heavy line is run through the hole from the surface to the first tie-off point, and the reel laid from there. I have done lake dives with excursions in excess of one thousand meters from the hole - protocol is identical to cave penetration, with the added risk of regulator freezing and shifting ice, necessitating diligent surface support to keep the hole clear and the guideline free.
I can't see ice diving being considered a purely recreational endeavour, since it requires redundant gear in accordance with any real or virtual overhead environment diving, and adds risks beyond those encountered in ordinary cave penetrations.
-Sean
Diving with an actual objective in mind, the dive is conducted as if it were a cave dive, since you can't make a direct ascent, dual regulators (doubles with an isolation manifold) are SOP, as well as a continuous guideline to the surface. The difference with ice diving is that the surface hole needs to be tended to keep it clear, and you don't want to run #24 line against the ice, as any tension on it can actually embed the line in the ice. In this case, a heavy line is run through the hole from the surface to the first tie-off point, and the reel laid from there. I have done lake dives with excursions in excess of one thousand meters from the hole - protocol is identical to cave penetration, with the added risk of regulator freezing and shifting ice, necessitating diligent surface support to keep the hole clear and the guideline free.
I can't see ice diving being considered a purely recreational endeavour, since it requires redundant gear in accordance with any real or virtual overhead environment diving, and adds risks beyond those encountered in ordinary cave penetrations.
-Sean
My father used to dive back in late fifties early sixties, i dont remember his gear for real but have some photos.
Harness with tank - no bladder or wing of any kind, he laughs at my equipment, on the basis that once the tank is empty you float anyway, right good one dad.
No redundant reg
No SPG (of course i suppose when you are running out of air you will float up). DIR guys could even argue its another failure point to have an SPG.
He has stories of him and his buddy diving rivers (pretty shallow i guess) under ice (probably pretty thin i guess again) with no lines. To surface they worked there way along the underside of the ice till they found another hole or broke there way back through.
Is this TEC, REC or just suprising here is still here?
Harness with tank - no bladder or wing of any kind, he laughs at my equipment, on the basis that once the tank is empty you float anyway, right good one dad.
No redundant reg
No SPG (of course i suppose when you are running out of air you will float up). DIR guys could even argue its another failure point to have an SPG.
He has stories of him and his buddy diving rivers (pretty shallow i guess) under ice (probably pretty thin i guess again) with no lines. To surface they worked there way along the underside of the ice till they found another hole or broke there way back through.
Is this TEC, REC or just suprising here is still here?
Albion,
Your father reminds me of a guy I used to fly with who told me a story about how he and some friends put together a dive rig by taking the walk-around bottle and regulator from some old aircraft, putting some goop on it at certain places (as directed by a Popular Mechanics article), and going diving under the ice. He dove solo, and in a wetsuit, with no back-up of any kind!
He told me that it was a real hoot to tie the ends of the lines of two separate ice-fisherman together, and then to pull on the line, and watch the battle begin!
We have all done some crazy stuff, through either ignorance, arrogance, or just the belief in our own immortality! Sometimes we survive, (not always), and sometimes we realize how close we came to checking out! At least at that point we wind up learning something.
I'm glad your Dad is still here, and I know you CERTAINLY are!
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