Ice diving course?

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I’ve never dived under ice. Is the underneath of the ice always flat? Will the line that the safety diver is searching with, be able to pass freely? If a lost diver goes to the underneath of the ice can they be seen from the surface. Excuse the stupid questions. No experience with ice.

1. not always, several factors contribute to the contour of ice. Clarity of ice is another issue. Sometimes ice is so clear underneath that the bubbles spreading across the surface are the best indicator of where it is. Always look up when ascending and look for your bubbles or raise your arm above your head in bad vis so you don’t smack your head on the ice.

2. generally yes, again dependent on how the entrance is constructed, angle of diver to tender, and any types of obstructions that may be encountered under the ice between the tender and diver.

3. depends on the thickness, clarity, and conditions of the ice.

The majority of my ice dives have been working dives and not recreational so we set them up a bit differently depending upon what we are trying to recover. Most of the time, we shovel off the snow to create lanes that branch out from the entrance in a star pattern to help guide the diver back if needed. Sunlight on the clear lane is contrasted by the snow so they are rather easy to see. If the ice is “dirty”, we drill down every 10 feet in the same pattern and attach a chem light. We used green, yellow, and red (green closest to the entrance) to help divers find their way if needed. If you came up and see a yellow chem, you follow the line. If it turns to a red chem, turn around and follow it the other way. Whatever you decide on safety measures, don’t out-dive the system. In other words, don’t set up a safety system that only extends 100’ if you plan on letting the diver line run out to 175’.

Granted, many may find these things unnecessary and simply tie off a line and jump in. Everyone has their own way or policies/procedures that will dictate how this type of dive is set up. While the above setup worked for us, it may not apply to others depending upon location and reason for dive. Also a big difference between running a dive such as this with a large dive unit versus two or three divers going out for an ice dive.

The lines we use are rather large and I have never witnessed a line coming off a diver or being cut. Tie a good knot and it should not be a major issue. As with any diving like this, plan the dive and dive the plan.
 
@mac64 :

Ice is a "never the same" topic. We have had wind swept ice that daylight penetrates and it is impossible to create surface indicators, heavy snow cover that allows the "circles and arrows pattern (oh, hey, a class topic), and 5 different layers of water zones that made it nothing but lights out below the ice.

As to underside ice obstructions, it again is how the ice formed. a dynamic ice pack can have irregularities due to shoves and then re-freeze on top. It also can be quite smooth. It is fun to be able to invert, and walk on the underside of the ice.

The tether - material selection, construction/use of attachment and proper harness/tether use - more academics of a program is pretty important. Keep in mind, it can be used to haul you out. You don't use "cave line" as mentioned upthread.
 
1. not always, several factors contribute to the contour of ice. Clarity of ice is another issue. Sometimes ice is so clear underneath that the bubbles spreading across the surface are the best indicator of where it is. Always look up when ascending and look for your bubbles or raise your arm above your head in bad vis so you don’t smack your head on the ice.

2. generally yes, again dependent on how the entrance is constructed, angle of diver to tender, and any types of obstructions that may be encountered under the ice between the tender and diver.

3. depends on the thickness, clarity, and conditions of the ice.

The majority of my ice dives have been working dives and not recreational so we set them up a bit differently depending upon what we are trying to recover. Most of the time, we shovel off the snow to create lanes that branch out from the entrance in a star pattern to help guide the diver back if needed. Sunlight on the clear lane is contrasted by the snow so they are rather easy to see. If the ice is “dirty”, we drill down every 10 feet in the same pattern and attach a chem light. We used green, yellow, and red (green closest to the entrance) to help divers find their way if needed. If you came up and see a yellow chem, you follow the line. If it turns to a red chem, turn around and follow it the other way. Whatever you decide on safety measures, don’t out-dive the system. In other words, don’t set up a safety system that only extends 100’ if you plan on letting the diver line run out to 175’.

Granted, many may find these things unnecessary and simply tie off a line and jump in. Everyone has their own way or policies/procedures that will dictate how this type of dive is set up. While the above setup worked for us, it may not apply to others depending upon location and reason for dive. Also a big difference between running a dive such as this with a large dive unit versus two or three divers going out for an ice dive.

The lines we use are rather large and I have never witnessed a line coming off a diver or being cut. Tie a good knot and it should not be a major issue. As with any diving like this, plan the dive and dive the plan.
Thanks for that, great setup and not something to mess about with. Don’t think I’d like under ice without comms and a standby. Gives me the shivers and I’m not talking about cold water.
 
@mac64 :

Ice is a "never the same" topic. We have had wind swept ice that daylight penetrates and it is impossible to create surface indicators, heavy snow cover that allows the "circles and arrows pattern (oh, hey, a class topic), and 5 different layers of water zones that made it nothing but lights out below the ice.

As to underside ice obstructions, it again is how the ice formed. a dynamic ice pack can have irregularities due to shoves and then re-freeze on top. It also can be quite smooth. It is fun to be able to invert, and walk on the underside of the ice.

The tether - material selection, construction/use of attachment and proper harness/tether use - more academics of a program is pretty important. Keep in mind, it can be used to haul you out. You don't use "cave line" as mentioned upthread.
Thanks for that, have to be honest sooner you than me.
 
You have a few options in Michigan that I know of. Two are good, one is, less than good.
Scuba North in Traverse City is a good option, they do a lot of ice diving and teach classes.
Motor City Scuba in Novi also does ice classes, he usually does them at Spring Mill Pond, the class will be good, the diving will look a lot like a muddy pond, just under the ice.
The third option is in Ann Arbor.

There are probably more shops through the state that teach it, I don't personally know of them or how they teach.
Is the third option on Washtenaw Avenue?…


When cutting a hole, cut a triangle, and take the oil out of the saw. If the hole clouds over with oil, squirt some dawn dish soap and it’ll scatter.
 
or get all manly/mean:

DSC00408small.JPG
 
Is the third option on Washtenaw Avenue?…


When cutting a hole, cut a triangle, and take the oil out of the saw. If the hole clouds over with oil, squirt some dawn dish soap and it’ll scatter.
It is.
 
I won't go back to a chainsaw for ice cutting. A fish's ice saw will cut circles around a chainsaw in ice. Almost like it was specifically designed for it.
Also, they always start.
 
the saw is called a 'fisking saw ' best way to cut ice ive found
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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