this maybe Jermaine to this discussion , a VERY prominent padi center in toronto just got booted out of padi (along with the owner/instructor ) for breaking standards on an ice diving course (there was other breaches ) but the ice course was the last straw . ive seen / heard alot of things that are done wrong on ice courses . making a major mistake under the ice , can be very unforgiving .......safety CANNOT short cutted i would NEVER teach / go under the ice without lines and tenders