Ice diving course?

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And it gets blurrier:

Hmmmmm very very blurry.

I would have no problems with diving that....
but I would have a least 1 spool.
( And the area has tie off points... imagine that...)
And even possibly a lift bag.
(Which I carry 99% of the time carry any way)
And a compass
 
Hmmmmm very very blurry.

I would have no problems with diving that.... ...//...
Neither would I, after several ice courses covering both recreational ice and PSD ice. As long as there is lots of open water, no wind, no current, no chance of getting your head crushed between ice floes. Nice viz and obvious bottom slope to follow near the shore. That would be all I would want, perfection.

...//... but I would have a least 1 spool.
( And the area has tie off points... imagine that...)
And even possibly a lift bag.
(Which I carry 99% of the time carry any way)
And a compass
Yeah, but seems like all that would ruin the karma of the moment. :p
 
So real curiosity here... Are you cave trained?
Just how would you run a lost line drill in the middle of a lake?

- The european way of cave diving (sump diving) is to dive within an arms length of the line.
- The line obviously runs along the bottom - unless you use ice screws or some other weird system. Perform e.g. a circular search unless a better procedure is known to you.
 
there was literally ice above and below us in the pilings at one section. About 2ft slot.
Was quite cool. In more ways than one.:wink:

Ooh! I want to experience that!

Make a hole in the ice, dive carrying a drill and an ice saw, cut a hole in the bottom ice while submerged, perform a secondary entry!!!
 
I have some spare time that I want to spend. Hence, I will reply to this post. Please note that I am only reacting to these exact words, not to the whole discussion. So, just isolated comments. I am not taking sides. Just my opinions below.

2) navigation in caves on the mainline is done with cookies,

Yes

when you live the mainline you usually put an arrow

You meant a personal cookie to count the team?
- Surely at every fixed T there are arrows already installed.
- If visibility is good and jumps are done instead, then you had better add your arrow where needed, that is true. And cookies to count your team.

3) What are you saying? In a cave, often you CANNOT choose your diving profile

Correct

4) I have no idea of how lines are placed for ice diving;

They are placed at the bottom.

Right, you can always try something like this: but as far as I know I am about the only person to have attempted something like that at least in my home town +100km

I imagine they are usually far from the bottom

No. A permanent (or personal) line runs along the bottom even in ice diving, unless you follow the ceiling.

If you have a line tender, then there is no line belaying, of course!

If the line gets broken far from the entrance, the other part may fall towards the bottom

It is plain stupid to use a negative rope when following the ceiling or while doing ice wreck dives with a line tender. A negative line in ice diving is perfect when... let me think... never? Neutral or positive.

Our ice diving rules tell us to ascend to the ceiling when we get lost (to save air and to facilitate rescue by circular search pattern). This obviously applies to dives along the ceiling or to dives with a line tender. Cave diving technique ice dives follow usual lost line procedures.

if it is negative, like in the figure on the right, or towards the ceiling if positive, or moving around a lot if neutral. In all these scenarios, the usual techniques used in cave diving would be WAY less effective

(indeed, in a cave the natural obstacles would stop the line to move around that much

Walls. That is a point. Remember though, that the walls do form a pipe, and if there is a current, the broken line disappears at the horizon. In ice diving a current is less common.

Ice diving in a current in low viz is a STUPID thing to do unless you are on a rescue mission.

And I wouldn't be surprised to find other aspects that are specific to ice diving

1. Free flow --> brain freeze --> urgent need to exit --> hold your breath --> trash your lungs
2. No backup mask. See #1
3. Loss of buoyancy --> sudden stop at the ceiling may hurt

I can for sure attest that #1 is actually a real risk.

If a novice asks a cave diver "how do you navigate in a cave?" and the answer is only "Continuous guide line to the surface. Compass... and know how to use it." That novice will understand almost zero of cave diving navigation. Could you give more details?

Details: "This thread is your life line. If you loose it you will never find your way out and you will have but two options: suffocate or inhale water. I recommend the former. Now choose."

There is a whole lot more to say about visual clues in navigation, about compass use, about lost line drills, about buddies etc etc etc but healthy fear is good. Heroes fall.

- is the no-visibility due to particles (like in cave diving) in the water a common scenario in ice diving?

A good point. Probably not, except for some public safety diving.

- is the darkness a serious problem like in cave diving?

At certain sites the abyssal zone starts at 20m/60ft

"If I am right, it is better to take an ice diving course before going under the ice".

Certainly. And do make sure that the instructor has more ice diving experience than the minimum. Why would one need a cave course for ice diving when there are dedicated ice diving courses?

Just make sure the courses cover the chosen technique. Line tender / fixed line / own reel and suitable emergency procedures.

Cold water comes with its own risks that are quite different from the risks of cave or sump diving.
 
Nice video.
Good to see someone is thinking..

Looks like you are using a
modified Yuoksavian method. :wink:

I had a similar thought before I saw this.
Now I have to spend some money on ice screws :wink:

(great minds think alike.
And fools seldom differ)

Doesn't matter how trained you are.
Diving conditions force you to modify
Existing training,
To cope with existing not normal conditions


.
 
Lost line searches are not circular

I'm getting curious.
I'd assume they could, in certain scenarios. The tunnel might be an O after all.
 
Looks like you are using a
modified Yuoksavian method. :wink:

Getting curious. Yuoksavian? Yugoslavian? Never heard. Tell me more!

Now I have to spend some money on ice screws :wink:

Just do not copy those line wrappings, they were ****
 
Yugoslavian is correct... (predictive typing)

It was in a story /article I read about,
Inwater recompression.....
He kinda did it without tables and did it
By the modified Yugoslavian method....
Basically by the (experienced guessing) or making it up on the fly :wink:

But I like that saying it customers,,
When i am not totally sure but have a good idea what i am doing...

(Not a good idea when diving without giving it some thought beforehand)

 

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