"I would have gotten the job -- if I were a woman."

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

It's almost taboo in the workplace to point out that there are two sexes . LOL

In diving, I find it interesting to look through instructor want adds once in a while. I get a kick out of how many specifically ask for a female and instruct the applicant to send a picture. It seems they're not only looking for female instructors but they're looking for good looking ones too.
 
divemistress:
Sexism -- anti-male sexism -- is one of the biggest complaints in PADI instructor circles around Washington, D.C. Supposedly PADI is so desperate for female instructors (why?) that it's heaping opportunities on women, while hemming in the men.How did that guy know he lost a prospective job because of his gender? "They said something about too much testosterone...." he mumbled. Uh huh.

Well, I hope that isn't the case and that perhaps attitude was the deciding factor in not getting awarded the position. I can perhaps understand two equally qualified and experienced people going for the same position, that maybe the female would be selected based on the fact that the LDS would like to add a female instructor but if the male is better qualified or more experienced with a better attitude (or basically anything that makes him the better candidate), then the position should go to him.

divemistress:
I also hear woman can get away with murder on the PADI IE, make mistakes right and left. But let a guy mess up and he's history. Or so men tell me.

That's disgraceful on the behalf of PADI and the instructor to let someone get away with blatant errors due to gender. I wouldn't want to have that person teaching me anything. I don't care what gender an instructor is, I want to know that their credentials AND experience makes them the best PERSON for the job. That would apply to any other professional (like pilot) that basically has my life in their hands. I don't want substandard people in control who are there only because of their sex or skin colour.

I can see the benefits for the students of having a female (AI or Instructor) in the water but it's no benefit at all if that AI (or instructor) hasn't earned the position.

Diverlady
 
I'm only posting because I feel that I can offer some input....
I don't see this reverse discrimination...at least in my situation. I have worked with a couple of girls that are instructors. One, who I went thru DM training with, is a good friend of mine that is my primary dive buddy and I trust her with my life regularly. She is a great instructor because she is a great person 24 hours a day and is a great teacher because she has a degree in education and loves to dive and is funny and can put people (men, women and kids) at ease in about 3 seconds. She passed IE because she had a great teacher and worked hard. The only other female instructor I have worked with took tops in her IE. I only worked with her after she was an Instr and I can see why she took tops.
Now, on a personal note, I am about as white as people come, yet, I do have 1/16th indian blood..ohhh, excuse me...Native American and am affiliated with the Kaw Nation in Oklahoma, and can trace my family way back...in fact my great, great (ect) grandfather was one of the chiefs that signed a treaty with the white devils and has his portrait hanging in the white house. Since I am a card carrying member, that's enough to claim Native American on any job app, so I can be your token "non-white" Has that gotten me any jobs or promotions? Nope, not that I can tell. Has it stopped me from getting any, again, no.
Call me lucky, I just haven't seen it.
 
To advertise for hiring an employee to be an instructor and the requirement for them to be female is a violation of federal law enforced by the misandristic federal Equal Emploiyment Opportunity Commission.

For knowlege enrichment I took 300 hours of formal Swedish massage instruction at a local massage school. All over the hiring boards were ads offering to hire female only massage therapists. But the EEOC seems to be a little less enthusiastic when it comes to prosecuting anyone who is not male and Caucasian.

As an example, if there was a restaurant that only hired Caucasians, the federal government ( I don't capitalize that out of disrepect) would be all over them like flies on crap. But if a noncaucasian business only hired their race to work there, it would be called a Sushi bar, and would be left utterly alone.

I have news for some posters, Caucasians and males worldwide are minorities, and the use of the term "reverse discrimination" means you believe that discrimination by definition only refers to that committed by Caucasians. Discrimination is discrimination, although discrimination is usually not a bad thing. As an example, for dating, I have always discriminated against everyone except Caucasian women. That makes me guilty of both racism and sexism, and proudly so. I discriminate in my tastes in the clothes I wear, in the food I eat, in the style of appointments and decor I select in my home, even in the company I keep. In fact, I am quite a discriminating guy, as I am not indiscriminate.

Julie writes; "Think about it in terms of advertising, What is the most predominant sex of people in advertisments in mens magazines? Female...

What is the predominant sex of people in advertisments in womens magazines? Female... Why is that? Because both Males and Females are affected positively by females and less so by Males..."

Reminds me the other day I was at a magazine rack. Amongst other things there were two sections. One was labeled "men's interests" and it had lots of magazines with photos of women on the front. In the "women's interests" it had lots of magazines with photos of women on the front. It's pathological.

It is pretty sad when women who claim heterosexuality in the U.S are more interested in looking at the bodies of other women then of men. This manifests itself by women who claim heterosexuality in the U.S. almost universally professing that the female body is far more beautiful then the male body. This contrasts signficantly with what European women profess. It is a most sad.

Take Speedos on guys for example and how anyone wearing them would be almost universally derided by U.S based women. It is pretty sad when allegedly heterosexual women in the U.S like mens bodies less then women and less than male homosexuals.

Along the promotion lines, Lt. Kara Hultgreen was a female aviator pilot who was killed flying F-14s off of carriers in 1994. She was more or less martyred by the press and the military for being such a hero, the latter of which is the standard bearer for the radical feminist left. None of the guys wanted to fly with her because she was so dangerous, not because of her gender. The bottom line is she was promoted and put in that Tomcat by virtue of her sex. When the military tried to claim that she had a mechanical malfunction, all the aviators knew otherwise that she was grossly incompetent and was repeatedly promoted over and over while being unqualfied. Proper throttle control was not used by her upon her last deck approach and it resulted in compressor stall and flameout and then she used excessive rudder overcontrol while single-engine, failed to execute proper waveoff procedures, failured to inform the RIO of the emergency, and failed to make a timely decision to eject. Frankly, the feminist upsucking post Tailhook Navy and the US feminist movement are responsible for her death. Here is government footage of the tragic incident that didn't have to happen were it not for feminist hegemonists:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/09/pentagon.navy/navy.crash.11sec.mov


Lt. Paula Coughlin was named woman of the year by the press, the women of Tailhook infamy. She was cannonized by the press for being such a courageous women for alleging sexual misconduct by males. The reality is she was engaged to be married at the time of Tailhook, yet she was organizing and participating in leg and bikini shaving parties for the guys and girls there, and was having sex with other men while there, and she got caught. Just like Tawana Brawley and her racist thug handler Al Shaprton, the coverup of her sexual behaviors was accomplished by the too common sexual abuse defense, and quite sucessfully so. What did she allege she was the victim of? Being "groped". Did she profit from her false claim of such? Yes, to the tune of $5 million dollars in a verdict where it was claimed Hilton Hotels failed to protect her from being "groped". Reminds me of the other day I was in Vegas to do a speaking seminar. It was just as Schwarzenegger was about to get elected and some women came forward, claiming they were groped by him and how they were still scared and frightened by the incident. So here I am at the RA night/dance club at the Luxor Hotel, and this woman walks near me, then turns, walks right up to me, puts her hand right between my legs and squeezes a bit, then smiles and walks away. I was thinking afterwards that I wonder what would happen if I called hotel security, would they kick her out of the hotel? If I called LVPD, would they arrest her and would the DA charge her with sexual battery? If I called a press conference and said I had been groped and ever since, I am frightened and scared, would I be believed? If I got $5 million dollars for every time a women groped me without my consent, gee, you would see 10 times more posts here as I would be retired from working!

As to PADI, I have been told by a LDS owner that the government asked PADI to hand over confidential records of all students who were invovled in rebreather training. No warrants, nothing, yet I was told PADI disclosed such confidential student records without the consent of the students.

As to race, gender and qualifications, I remember during my police academy days there was a race issues training session. A Negro guy was handling the instruction of this portion, and he asked the class if they were a citizen with a police issue, would they prefer to have someone of their own race show up. A buddy of mine in class who was a Negro, who I got along with quite well because we were both mischief makers, raised his hand and attempted to justify wanting a "black" [sic] officer appear, whereas I closed by stating I didn't care what race or gender showed up, as long as they were the most competent person for the job. As an observation, notice how you as a reader didn't cringe when I used the term "Caucasian" 6 times prior but you had a mini-seizure when you read the descriptive "Negro", which like "Caucasian" is a correct anthropological term devoid of political influence or over simplification, to wit,"black" or "white".

I find the female experience quite curious. It is a fascinating dynamic. As one example, I hear some women claiming they are more comfortable having a female doctor giving them a pelvic check. The idea of a male doctor giving me a digital prostate exam or palpitating my gear repulses me. As another example, I know many women are quite worried when they go out alone walking, and express much trepidation. If I am out walking alone, I don't walk with fear, yet as a guy I am 6 times more likely to be the victim of violent crime. I don't see things through gender colored glasses and the mens magazine section that has primarily guys on the covers is the one I avoid unless I want to send an anonymous subscription to a buddy as a prank, because it is called the homosexual magazine section.

I have to give divemistress credit for bringing up this subject since it is a more common female trait to silence or denigrate males who complain of male gender inequity as a means of enforcing and perpetuating the superior power and societal privilege females enjoy.

Plus a robust debate inclusive of my heterodoxic ideology is always fun...... :wink:
 
Good points, Dry Suit Dave. As a Human Resources professional, I would personally LOVE to see applications devoid of gender and race questions. Personally, I don't even want to see names, I am interested in expereience and qualifications.

Funny thing I noticed in reading the last partof your post Dave- I do prefer a female Gyn- mostly because women have "been there/done that" and KNOW what constitutes "discomfort, cold, etc" where that particular exam is concerned. I am not, however, afraid to walk by myself at night, etc. I think that is societal conditioning....
 
chickdiver, everytime I read your quote, it reminds me of Margeret Thatcher, who kicked the ass of a much larger country 6000 miles away....Susan B Anthony's brilliantly articulate and defiant speach to the court who was trying her for voting also comes to mind...

Having said that, if I were ob/gyn, I wouldn't need to receive training to know if I employed metallic speculums, I would get an electric warmer and set it to about 98.6 degrees and keep them in there or use plastic disposable ones and double check them for sharp injection molding edges first. That comes not from training or by virtue of gender, it stems from empathy and thoughtfulness not inate or exclusive to the female gender. On that note, I have seen anecdotal evidence to suggest that female gynos spend more time doing the pelvic exam by virtue of male gynos being concerned about the perception that the female patient is wary of a male doctor spending too much time doing a thorough exam and thus perform it too quickly. Next time my female doctor does a checkup on me and checks out my gear, I wonder if I should insist another male nurse be present to make sure she doesn't "try anything".....lol
 
DrySuitDave:
So here I am at the RA night/dance club at the Luxor Hotel, and this woman walks near me, then turns, walks right up to me, puts her hand right between my legs and squeezes a bit, then smiles and walks away. )

LOL ... i guess what happens in Vegas, really does stays in Vegas eh?

Good post Dave. Funny how societal conditioning works. Most guys i know would get a big kick out of that happening to them in bar. Most women i know would not be impressed if the same happened to them.

Interesting phenomenon to be sure!
 
DrySuitDave:
To advertise for hiring an employee to be an instructor and the requirement for them to be female is a violation of federal law enforced by the misandristic federal Equal Emploiyment Opportunity Commission. ......

As an example, if there was a restaurant that only hired Caucasians, the federal government ( I don't capitalize that out of disrepect) would be all over them like flies on crap. But if a noncaucasian business only hired their race to work there, it would be called a Sushi bar, and would be left utterly alone.

There seemed to be a double standard on this law when applied to the Hooter's restaurant case. Correct me if I don't get the particulars quite right, but a couple of guys applied to be 'waiters' and were turned down for obvious reasons. They sued on the grounds of sexual discrimination and I believe they lost! The court stated that Hooter's was hiring to promote an obvious image and that this wasn't discrimination. Maybe the case is in the court of appeals now - I'm not sure.

Someone mentioned above about how a newspaper hired a few 'token' women into high-level positions as a front and that they didn't have any real power. That's unfortuneate for everyone no matter what gender or race. The problem in my industry, is a pilot is a pilot. There is no figurehead position with no real power.

The latest loss of aircraft at one of the leading cargo carriers that rhymes with MedEx shows this double standard. A MD-10 (modern version of the DC-10 with one less crewmember) crashed into the runway in Memphis two weeks ago and caught on fire, destroying most of the airplane. The First Officer was a woman with a lot of seniority(time at the company), and the Captain was a male with only 11 months until retirement. He was an instructor doing what is called a 'line check' on the female FO. She had been using her seniority to bid for overseas flying where the Captain does the takeoffs and landings, and the FO flies enroute (radio jockey). To keep herself in currency on landings (required by the FAA), she would jump in the simulator and do her required set. The line check being administered was to make sure she could land the real thing. Her experience flying the real thing was substandard. This is a heavy aircraft and a lot to handle in adverse conditions. She failed the first line check and was being rechecked on the return flight from Oakland to Memphis. After a severly bad misaligned landing due to a shift in wind, the accident happened. I'm sure she has been fired or will be soon, but the union will sue to get her job back under sexual discrimination guise. The Captain is in jeapardy of losing his pension if terminated (doubt they will not give retirement). If the FO had been a male, the company would not have let this inadequate pilot fly this aircraft after failing to gain proper experience with takeoffs and landings. I see it several times a year while jumpseating home to Florida. I cringe and keep my mouth shut so as not to rattle my sabre.

I try to be PC most of the time, but in some cases - being PC can get you killed.


The Donkey quote is a true statistic! I'm not sure what gender of donkey kills more people annually though. :)
 
chickdiver:
Good points, Dry Suit Dave. As a Human Resources professional, I would personally LOVE to see applications devoid of gender and race questions. Personally, I don't even want to see names, I am interested in expereience and qualifications.

..

The last time I was involved in picking a person to fill a position I had trouble getting HR to pass through an applicant that spoke english. The open position was an engineering position and this was in the Chicago area. All the applicants had plenty of letters after their name. They could have been the smartes people in the world but they wouldn't be able to show it to me because we couldn't talk.

It's funny, with the way companies stress communication skills that in the center of the US you can't get an applicant that you can talk to.

Well I battled HR opn the basis that whoever filled the position had to be able to talk to me but I still had to argue that they were selecting applicants on the basis of race which they were.

We also had a female minority employee that departments fought over..."You take her"..."No you take her"...She was the single worst engineer that I've come accross in almost 15 years. She spent half the day sleeping in the ladies lounge. She kept getting moves around and each time with a promotion. It was the joke of the facility and one of the funniest things I ever saw. BTW this was at the division headquarters for a large division of a world wide fortune 100 company.

These situations come and go with HR heads and corp. edicts but I've been hip deep in it many times.

There are, however, far worse trends in the corp environment today.

Dave,

Adds for female instructors can be found on the PADI web site and probably in the back of many dive magazines. Keep in mind that all those resorts are probably ouside of the US so I doubt any of those laws apply.
 
LOL- Dave- Maggie Thatcjer is one of my heroines!

Mike - I see (and agree with) your point on communication. I have my own little "kingdom" in my office- I'm not only the head of the HR dept., I AM the HR dept... For the initiall vetting of applications, I'm only interested in qualifications and experience, the personal interviews are where we start narrowing down for communication skills and "fit". Theoretically, at that point your interviewees should constitute a fairly level playing field.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom