I wanna do it all

[Stoo]

I do not have the money available to replace my current gear. So, GUE is not where I will be at.

Tech diving is not a poor man's sport. If you can't afford to equip yourself properly, then you should stick with recreational diving until you can afford it. As others have said, you don't need to acquire everything at once... and buy "well" when you do... Good regs will last forever.

GUE finesses the fine points of gear configuration, but all tech dives require essentially the same pile of gear... Twin tanks, stage bottles, high end regs and computers, drysuits etc. It would be an interesting survey, but I would guess your typical cave-diver is probably dropping in with a minimum of $7 - $8,000 worth of gear and that's without scooters and travel costs!

"Budget" is the dumbest reason possible for taking shortcuts. Once in a while I start to tally-up what I have invested in this sport and it makes my head spin...

You commented above about it taking 5 - 10 years for you to accumulate 100 dives (unless I mis-read). That is NOT the sign of a committed diver. I've been at this 40 years and log about 100 dives a year to this day, and many of my friends that are younger, do at least that amount.

I "dabbled" at cave diving eons ago, but decided that I wasn't willing to commit to the time required to get good at it. I made the choice between that and flapping around in the ocean. It was one or the other for my vacations.

 

[tomfcrist]

Only one dip tube (or a hole for such) can be seen in the pictures. There is also only one o-ring sealing the cylinder. These valves protect against first stage and second stage failures, not against single cylinder failure. And yes, those valves come with metric M25X2 threads.

Valves such as these are obviously not needed if two separate cylinders are beeing used

Yeah I get all that. I remember some Y-valves being available a few years back that were double dip tube. I realize that if a neck oring fails that there is no way to recover the usability of the tank, but it would be nice if a dipstick got clogged to have a redundant air path in the system.

 

[geoff w]

Seeing the various pictures on the various diving Facebook groups I belong to, I keep thinking: I wanna do that.

Dive below 130 feet, dive in caves, dive in wrecks, the list goes on.

I have my AOW. I know I can do more certifications, but, I want to know; Is there something higher than AOW that covers caves and deeper, but does not force me to wear and use the exact same things as everyone else?

I am guessing that means going Tech, but I don't dive enough.

I am not saying it is a bad thing, but I have my own equipment that I like. I have gotten rid of some equipment I did not like. I think GUI require you own the exact same set up as everyone.

When I say "Deep", I mean well over 200 feet. Cave, I mean, those really long caves.

I do not have the money available to replace my current gear. So, GUE is not where I will be at.

One of my neighbors I sometimes dive with is a very accomplished tech diver. He's dived to hundreds of feet, has discovered quite a few wrecks, and does a trip or three each year to dive caves in Mexico and elsewhere. It all sounds like very cool stuff, and seeing some of the baubles he's brought up from deep wrecks or videos from exploring new cave systems is mesmerizing, the stuff of explorers and adventurers and National Geographic documentaries. It's taken him a while to become proficient enough not to kill himself in each discipline, and he's had more than one of his colleagues not return from a dive.

It all sounds wonderful but has very little appeal to me personally. There's a tremendous amount of planning that goes in to every dive, along with commensurate cost. The deeper you go, the less there is to see as far as pretty stuff, unless you're diving to explore something specific. Deep dives are typically square profiles, with relatively little time spent at depth and lots of time on the ascent with little to see, unless something interesting happens to swim by. When I asked my neighbor what cave diving is like, he suggested I strap doubles on my back, crawl under a living room sofa and turn out the lights

From your comments I quoted, I'm left asking the question "why?" since you haven't really said what you want to personally get out of the more extreme technical aspects of scuba diving. It looks cool? Because it's there? Set a new personal best? Impress everyone else? Ego? Probably all the wrong reasons to do tech diving. It's not about the gear, because backplate/wing setups, can lights, underwater scooters and nitrox are all great tools for recreational divers.

I figure if I go diving most weekends for the rest of my life I'll never get to do all the recreational diving things I want to and never make it to all the wonderful destinations with lots of pretty stuff to see at relatively shallow depths. To me, scuba diving is exploring an alien world, and I wanna do that. There are lots of great wrecks to explore at shallow enough depths to actually spend a little time there and explore. Coral reefs, with all their life, are mostly at relatively shallow depths and are an absolutely fascinating ecosystem filled with unimaginable life forms. And if you're lucky enough to live relatively close to diveable waters, you can get a completely different perspective on your own backyard that few of your neighbors will ever experience or even imagine

I also like fast cars and driving quickly, but I'm not about to invest the time and expense to reach any level of competitiveness in motorsports either. I just want to enjoy myself, not get hurt (or hurt anyone else), and don't need to prove anything to anyone

 

[swimmer_spe]

Part of my reason is that I do not want to be restricted to 130 feet and no ceiling. There may not be much life deeper, but there is more to diving than just life. Features, or wrecks do appeal to me.

I want to do it safe. I do not want to cut corners. I want to do it on a budget.

 

[decompression]

Part of my reason is that I do not want to be restricted to 130 feet and no ceiling. There may not be much life deeper, but there is more to diving than just life. Features, or wrecks do appeal to me.

I want to do it safe. I do not want to cut corners. I want to do it on a budget.

I can't emphasize enough how exponentially more challenging it is as depth increases.
Even an experienced diver with say, 200 dives, advanced diver, nitrox and maybe deep diver courses is still bound by training or lack thereof.

Example, simple dive to 130', standard gear, single al80, lights....the usual.
First, calculate rock bottom- 2800 psi.......so 200 psi to descend 130' have a look and start the ascent...yes this can be recalculated during the dive but I hope you get my point.
So, to get even a little bottom time we need doubles, larger tanks or slung tank.
That requires training.

Bottom line is with depth comes very little gas to deal with emergencies, and that is compounded by narcosis. If you are diving cold, low vis water its exponentially worse.

It can be done on a budget, but the trade off is time. Waiting for the right gear at the right price and thorough research. If you are lucky, you might find a mentor. He can steer you in the right direction with regards to gear purchases and the most efficient and cost effective way to achieve your goals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Superlyte27]

One of my neighbors I sometimes dive with is a very accomplished tech diver. He's dived to hundreds of feet, has discovered quite a few wrecks, and does a trip or three each year to dive caves in Mexico and elsewhere. It all sounds like very cool stuff, and seeing some of the baubles he's brought up from deep wrecks or videos from exploring new cave systems is mesmerizing, the stuff of explorers and adventurers and National Geographic documentaries. It's taken him a while to become proficient enough not to kill himself in each discipline, and he's had more than one of his colleagues not return from a dive.

It all sounds wonderful but has very little appeal to me personally. There's a tremendous amount of planning that goes in to every dive, along with commensurate cost. The deeper you go, the less there is to see as far as pretty stuff, unless you're diving to explore something specific. Deep dives are typically square profiles, with relatively little time spent at depth and lots of time on the ascent with little to see, unless something interesting happens to swim by. When I asked my neighbor what cave diving is like, he suggested I strap doubles on my back, crawl under a living room sofa and turn out the lights

From your comments I quoted, I'm left asking the question "why?" since you haven't really said what you want to personally get out of the more extreme technical aspects of scuba diving. It looks cool? Because it's there? Set a new personal best? Impress everyone else? Ego? Probably all the wrong reasons to do tech diving. It's not about the gear, because backplate/wing setups, can lights, underwater scooters and nitrox are all great tools for recreational divers.

I figure if I go diving most weekends for the rest of my life I'll never get to do all the recreational diving things I want to and never make it to all the wonderful destinations with lots of pretty stuff to see at relatively shallow depths. To me, scuba diving is exploring an alien world, and I wanna do that. There are lots of great wrecks to explore at shallow enough depths to actually spend a little time there and explore. Coral reefs, with all their life, are mostly at relatively shallow depths and are an absolutely fascinating ecosystem filled with unimaginable life forms. And if you're lucky enough to live relatively close to diveable waters, you can get a completely different perspective on your own backyard that few of your neighbors will ever experience or even imagine

I also like fast cars and driving quickly, but I'm not about to invest the time and expense to reach any level of competitiveness in motorsports either. I just want to enjoy myself, not get hurt (or hurt anyone else), and don't need to prove anything to anyone

If cave diving where like the bottom of my sofa, I could sell 50k worth of dive gear. Your buddy doesn't know what he's talking about. Neither do you if you think there's nothing to see.

Ever been to the Grand Canyon? All it is rocks and water right? But tens of thousands of people go see it every year. Now, imagine it filled with crystal clear water and you getting to swim all over it. You don't have to look from afar, you can swim right up to the beauty, all the while being weightless, in perfect quiet (on ccr anyway) surrounded by nothing but timeless awe. No nagging phone calls, no worrying about bills, or school or spouse or starter on the car.... just peace and quiet swimming in the middle of a miniature Grand Canyon. You either get it or you don't. And there's no way to help someone "get it" if they don't. It just is.

 

[geoff w]

Part of my reason is that I do not want to be restricted to 130 feet and no ceiling. There may not be much life deeper, but there is more to diving than just life. Features, or wrecks do appeal to me.

I want to do it safe. I do not want to cut corners. I want to do it on a budget.

Read Shadow Divers: The True Adventure of Two Americans Who Risked Everything to Solve One of the Last Mysteries of World War II: Robert Kurson: 9780375760983: Amazon.com: Books for some good accounts of tech diving on a budget

If cave diving where like the bottom of my sofa, I could sell 50k worth of dive gear. Your buddy doesn't know what he's talking about. Neither do you if you think there's nothing to see.

Ever been to the Grand Canyon? All it is rocks and water right? But tens of thousands of people go see it every year. Now, imagine it filled with crystal clear water and you getting to swim all over it. You don't have to look from afar, you can swim right up to the beauty, all the while being weightless, in perfect quiet (on ccr anyway) surrounded by nothing but timeless awe. No nagging phone calls, no worrying about bills, or school or spouse or starter on the car.... just peace and quiet swimming in the middle of a miniature Grand Canyon. You either get it or you don't. And there's no way to help someone "get it" if they don't. It just is.

I never said there is nothing to see. From your description, you don't need lots of cave training and extensive gear for the cenotes in Cozumel; there are plenty of operators that take recreational divers in on a regular basis. And you don't need to go very far underwater just to get away from phone calls and email (so far). If exploring thousands of feet into unexplored segments in Tulum on four to six hour dives, or locating and being the first to dive and identify many of the significant west coast wrecks at technical depth, or being one of the lead divers for one of the biggest west coast sunken treasure recoveries doesn't count, then yes, my buddy doesn't know what he's talking about

Being weightless, swimming right up to beauty, and no daily worries was never part of the OP's post. He just wanted to go really deep underwater and really far in to caves, and dive in wrecks - all on a budget. Certainly macho stuff, and he got plenty of suggestions for what experience and training he would need and what kind of gear he would have to buy. But if all he wants to do is see cool stuff underwater, and thinks the only way to do it is beyond the limits of recreational diving, then many of the responses he got were a disservice to him

Several accomplished tech divers I know rarely go diving just for fun, not because they don't enjoy it, because when they join me for a simple fun beach dive they usually go away with a big smile and we usually dive several times when conditions look good. They're more likely to cancel than other dive buddies because they didn't get enough sleeep, something else came up, or they might have a stuffy nose coming on. It seems like tech divers lose how to enjoy the spontaneity of a spur of the moment dive for fun without lots of planning. I've been competitive in other activities involving lots of planning and preparation, and got to the point where just going out for fun became work because there was no end goal, and don't want to get to that point with diving. If the OP just wants bragging rights or to prove something, there are probably better and more cost effective ways that take less time and preparation than tech diving

 

[Superlyte27]

Hey, I was just using what you stated as evidence about your buddy. For the record, 4-6 hour dives are what we do here for fun. The technical dives next month will be 8+ hours.

But this is YOUR paragraph
It all sounds wonderful but has very little appeal to me personally. There's a tremendous amount of planning that goes in to every dive, along with commensurate cost. The deeper you go, the less there is to see as far as pretty stuff, unless you're diving to explore something specific. Deep dives are typically square profiles, with relatively little time spent at depth and lots of time on the ascent with little to see, unless something interesting happens to swim by. When I asked my neighbor what cave diving is like, he suggested I strap doubles on my back, crawl under a living room sofa and turn out the lights

Frankly, there's almost nothing accurate about that paragraph. To date (nearly 20 years technical diving) the most amazing dives I've ever done were 300'+. But it's a matter of perspective. I think God's creation, both animate and inanimate are cool to look at. Your post leads me to believe that it's only cool if something neat swims by. Also, deep dives in caves are almost never square profiles. My dives last month ran 30 minutes around 100', then dipped down to 180, later dipping down to 300'. And we still have to turn around and come back. There's nothing square about any cave dive I've done. Also, there comes a point where your cost of diving does not change with depth. It costs me exactly the same to dive at 10' as it does to dive at 400'. And it's a really sweet spot to be in in life. I have a guy who randomly invites me to dives at 450'. Our schedules haven't lined up yet so that I can go, but when I do get to go, cost will not be a factor at all. Add in the fact that there's something to see (in my opinion) for every aspect of that dive, and it's a no brainer. Granted, a whale shark isn't going to swim by though.

As far as planning goes... I can plan almost any cave dive in 10 minutes or less. It's as simple as depth, penetration and warmth. That's pretty easy. So, which undergarments, which bailout and how many scooters do I bring. Pretty simple really. But like I said, you either get the appeal or you don't. And some never will. Thank God for that.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Here it is after you fulfill the obsession "I want to do it all": A month's Tech Wreck Trip to Truk Lagoon . . .(Look at the Open Circuit Gas costs alone).

 

[Germie]

When I started diving, I did that with the idea to do technical dives. I decided to start technical diving when I was dm and had around 250 dives. In less than a year I did all possible techcourses oc (adv. rec. trimix, normoxic trimix, full trimix and cavern, intro and full cave). My first 100m dive was dive 521, the qualifying dive of my full tx course. So it took for me 250 dives to do all techcourses. Fast in time, not fast in dives, but as you see, 10 dives a year is not enough.
You have now 100 dives, that is not a lot, but not too less to think about technical diving. But if you do only 10 dives a year, then it is too less to get the right skills. You have to dive more.
YOu tell that you don't want to have limits around 40m and no deco. If you do the first techcourse, then you still have limits on depth and time. So after the course you will be dissapointed that the 42 or 48 m limit with a 15 minutes deco is still not enough, so you want more.

The best thing you can do: talk to an instructor, ask if it is possible to do the intro level in technical diving (or cavern, or adv. nitrox, both courses will learn you different things) with rental gear or with small changes in your own gear. Maybe the instructor will say that you are ready for that course, but maybe not. We cannot see if you can do such a course with 100 dives or not (I know in standards you can start technical diving with less dives, but always the instructor decides). I did not like limits too when I started diving, I know that feeling. I have done a lot of decodives on a single tank and other stupid things because I wanted further but others said that I was not ready for it. Then I said, now I go further and I looked for an instructor. And yes, I was ready to go further. But I had much more dives than you (in less time), and I am still diving 4-5 times a week. My underwatertime is quite a lot. You need to want to improve and practise.
But with the entry level you know a little bit more about technical diving. And then you have to decide: Will I stay on the level I have and only 10 dives a year, or will I do the investment for new equipment and other courses and dive more? There is no cheap technical diving. Where you do for a 100 dollar 3 dives on a single tank on a holiday, now you will pay the same amount for only 1 or 2 dives without gases (but most times including the rental of tanks).