I tried my new BP/Wings this weekend and had some problems- HELP!!!(REALLY REAL LONG)

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Windknot

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Location
Middle Michigan
OK, I did it. I admit it. I couldnt wait any longer till I had all of my gear. I was originally going to wait for the test runs till I had the 'proper' hoses, dry suit etc. in place and paid for before getting oriented to the new kit. (Dont ask why....I just decided that was what I was going to do)

So, I hear the LDS is having its last pool session for their most recent OW class at the University where I work, I call them and ask if I can borrow some water, weights and maybe a wetsuit to make me floaty and join in the fun and hopefully stay out of the way. They replied YES on all accounts.

The following is a list of my equipment, and my experiences as I remembered them, penning my notes as soon as I got home. Any feedback or helpful Heloise hints would be appreciated.

EQUIPMENT:

FABER LP98 with 36% EAN
Halcyon Pioneer Wing - 36#
FredT Stainless Backplate
FredT 2 Piece STA
Halcyon ACB- ditchable weight system
Atomic B1/T2 Primary/DIN
Atomic Z1 Backup on bungee
Vyper in console with compass to record my see-saw dive profile

Rental 7mm Farmer John and Long Sleeve step in shorty (Same one used for OW Class and certifications)

ENVIRONMENTAL:

Outside Temperature: 10 Deg F.
Indoor University Pool - Heavily chlorinated seim clear water heated to 86 Deg F on my Vyper (Yes it really was that warm)
Building heat and humidity made area feel approx 10 deg. warmer than water. VERY HOT

HUMOROUS FIRST PART OF THE REPORT:

I arrived a little late, was in a hurry, carried tank over shoulder and all gear in two over-the-shoulder bags onto the pool deck all at once while wearing my long parka. Instant SWEAT. I dropped off my equipment at the pool and made my way to the locker room for a quick change act and returned to the pool area. Wearing just a pair of trunks I was very comfortable, warm actually.

I was a little concerned with this class, it was their last session and they didnt know how to set up thier kits. 'Our Class was MUCH Better' I thought. I moved over to the side and set up my kit lickety split. (I admittedly had assembled it at least a dozen times in the last month to get it down...you fight the way you train...I remember someone saying) I waited till the entire class, Instructor and DiveCon all were weighted out before I grabbed the school weight bags (Shot). Last time I dove, I needed 32# to get down...and still needed more. I filled my ACB's up with a 5# and 2x4# in each pocket for a total of 26# of ditchable weight. (SEE NOTE #1)

The dive class was now catching up to me, and I realized that being buddyless meant I would have to KIT-up myself. I quick got into my ENTIRE wetsuit (Top and Farmer John) and jumped into the water to cool off as I was already sweating. I hopped out and grabbed my shoulder strap and....OOHhhhh take the weights OUT of the pockets first. I was able to get my kit up and on by myself as I watched the class be reminded how to empty the air out of their BC's. (Boy...I was them not long ago). OK, I've got the crotch strap around and I'm all hooked up. Now I all I have to do is put the weight pockets back in, throw on the fins and do a giant stride into the deep end. Uhhh....cant quite reach the pockets to force the ACB Pocket ALL THE WAY IN far enough to clip them closed. I'm really getting VERY HOT NOW!! Not to metnion a little pissed.

I pull the kit off and lay it down on a table near where I was wrestling with the ACB pockets. I insert the pockets into their respective holders and then jam and pack them into thier respective holders. (SEE NOTE #2)

Weight pockets now firmly embedded in thier respective pockets, I sit the Kit upright on the table and do a quick two step and bend and am able to get the backplate and straps on my back. After a few tense moments adjusting the waist belts w/weights attached, I clip the belt together....without the crotch strap. Open the waist belt back up and....reach...reach....Need a G.D. Leash for the crotch strap next time. Attach kit and walk to water's edge.

Shoot a little air into the BC and JUMP!! 86 Degree water never felt SO GOOD!! I was now out of breath and overheated from struggling with the kit. I took a few minutes to orient myself to the OW class to make sure I wasn't in thier way and did a quick surface swim to get to an empty part of the pool...and the moment of truth...I raise my Inflator and depress the button...air escapes and my head goes under!!!!.....I let off the button and keep sinking....really sinking....Foot contact with the floor of the pool at 13'. I was obviously overweighted, but to me that was an improvement. Then I remembered the calculations that I had done and could recite from memory: Tank 7# Negative full, Back Plate 6# negative that equals 13# I could have taken off my weight belt/pockets.

(None of it matters though, I'm diving with MY OWN EQUIPMENT. For anyone who has never had the opportunity to dive with equipment that you own, you will remember my comments. There is something both gratifying and relaxing about using your own gear.)

Off the bottom of the pool for a quick stroll and with all of the weight I shoot to the bottom....I dont want to start ripping weights out to adjust my trim yet, I was anxious to dive with my new gear and didnt want to be bothered with such things. Then it hit me...I needed to relax, get the extra weight out and (no pun intended) DO IT RIGHT!!! I inflated my wing to get me off the bottom and I kicked over to the pool's edge, pulled my mask and then popped my weight pockets out of their little holders. I removed 8# of weight from the pockets and then tried to insert them back....after struggling with them for a good 10 minutes, I realized that I needed to get the kit off to get the weight pockets back in with now only 9# in the 15# pockets!!!! (SEE NOTE #3)

I was back in the pissed mode, thinking about the price of the ACB and the fact that I now had to get out of the pool to get the weight pockets back in when I actually got out of the pool. By the top rung of the ladder, I was REALLY, REALLY hot, overtaxed and stressed. BURP....oh no....BURP......JEEZUS...NOT NOW....BURP, GURLE...pain in abdomen...Kit comes off (SEE NOTE #4) Getting very light headed. Start stripping off the wetsuit as I head for the locker room. Shorty is almost off and the Farmer john's stupid velcro is becoming a problem as I approach the stall....then the inevitable question....which gas is going to come out first???? DO I STAND OR DO I SIT???? (In the interest of brevity...yeah who am I kidding, what I did in that stall was MY BUSINESS you can make your own ASSumptions.....LOL) I'm sitting there a few minutes later asking myself why in the hell I put on 14mm worth of heat trapping Neoprene in an 86 degree pool and 90+ Degree atmosphere on to my Buddaesque figure????? Answer....Tunnel Vision, had to get my kit wet.

REALITY CHECK:

1. It is WAY TOO HOT in the pool for full cold water wetsuit.
2. Even if it wasn't too hot, there's no way in hell i'm going to get the wet top back on without passing out from heat exaustion trying to wiggle my fat butt back into it.
3. As much as I wanted to get my kit tuned in, I had to accept the fact that the bouyancy would have to be dialed in another day. BACK TO THE POOL.

PERFORMANCE PART OF THE REPORT:

I noted an immediate change for the better in my comfort level being in just farmer john. I fixed the weights into their pockets AGAIN after removing another 8# for a total of 10# ditchable in the pockets.

Kit now on its third self donning goes on easily and I nab the crotch strap on the first try. Apparently the bathroom episode had 'loosened me up' and I was much more relaxed now.

Once back in the water, I easily dropped below the surface and kicked off around the pool. I was still bottoming out....may need to dump a little more weight later so I just added a little air to the wing instead....then the problems started. Upon filling the wing with enough air to stop my descent, I was immediately thrown into a severe head down, feet WAY UP position. I was able to kick my way out of it several times before I realized what was wrong - air was collecting at the bases of the wings and lifting my rear end up.

I completely emptied my wings to relieve the attitude problem and then noted my second problem: With little or no air in the wing, the weight of the tank takes over and rolls me over like a keel on a boat, turtle on its back, fat guy laying down etc. Now I know that proper control over attitude/dive position is important, but was not expecting that much roll.

When I ordered my wing, harness and ACB's, I also ordered the Halcyon trim pockets to compliment the system and the price was not excessive (I think like $17.00). Only problem was they were on backorder so I had to dive without them....guess what arrived the next day? Yeppers...my trim pockets.

I will need many more tanks worth of time in the pool before I geth this new system down.

From a comfort stand point, I just realized that I didnt notice the Kit on me once in the water. It was as though it was not there.

PROBLEMS EXPERIENCED:

1. Excessive/acute head down-feet up....almost standing on my head.
2. Sudden Roll on to back.

QUESTIONS I HAVE:

1. Should the trim pockets take care of the attitude problem? (The STA and wing are already in the position farthest back)
2. Am I just going to have to get used to the roll?






__________________________________________________________
NOTE #1- 15# ACB pockets MAY hold 15# of loose shot, but not in bags!!! The pockets were very tightly packed with my 13# and would be damned hard to get more in there.

NOTE #2 - ACB System is CRAP and cannot be effectively placed into holding pockets when STUFFED with weights. (note I said when STUFFED)

NOTE #3 - ACB Pockets are almost impossible to replace in the water, using one hand if there is anything more than one bag of weights in them.

NOTE #4 - When needed, the Back Plate and Wings style system CAN be removed in a big hurry when necessary.
 
:shakeno:
Windy...Windy...Windy...
7mm wetsuit with farmer John in a heated pool...
:shakeno:

Your tank is to high...lower it and you won't be doing the head stand.

Keep a little air in the wing and you won't be doing the barrel rolls.

Use solid weights in the ACB pockets... that way you can slide them in and out by yourself.

Sell the ACB pockets on ebay and by a soft weightbelt....
Oh.... hey.... you order this stuff direct didn't you???
Send the ACBs back for a refund.
 
I got the ACBs but never used them, sent them back as they just seemed cumbersome.
Not sure of your body type, but right off you did sound a bit overweighted.

I think you caught on at the end to go slower and not so much task loading. Also add in the excitement factor and stage fright factor of doing all this in front of an OW class.

My buddy/instructor's main comment is always GO SLOWER. Form is the key, not speed.

The bp/wings shoulder straps should be loose enough that getting it off is a snap, most of the weight should be on the hips like in a backpack.

I also had the keel weights but did not use them and sent them back as they "just looked a bit too busy" for me. Same as the ACBs. That's just me. One thing I always like about the DIR divers is how simple and streamlined everything always is.

It is similar to the way I cook, just start out with the best simple ingredients, then do your best to not screw them up and all will be well.

Tommy
 
I don't know if you usually dive fresh or salt water, but don't forget that you need less weight in fresh water. And everyone else is right, just take your time. If you do end up getting a weight belt, remember it goes under the crotch strap. Also your tank will be nuetrally bouyant when empty (didn't know if you knew that). Also if you ever need to take your kit off in the water, release some air from the wing, it makes it easier to get the harness off.
 
1. Pug - My tank is as low as it is going to get. With the two piece STA from FredT and the short and fat Faber LP98 there is no more room to move the tank down. I was wondering if I switched to a one piece STA if I could get the tank in a better position. My top strap and STA Bracket is right at the start of the curve of the top of the tank. I'll photograph it and add it to this string later this a.m. I will try the solid weights next. As far as dumping the ACB (Pun intended) I'd prefer to exhaust all options with it before going to a weight belt. As my wife is so fond of reminding me....I have no ass, I have no hips...nada.:D and I fear that a weight belt would just task and stress me in a new direction. (I essentially wear a weight belt every day at work as a police officer and I really have to torqe my belt down to keep it from sliding, and my hips or lack thereof ALWAYS hurt at the end of a shift. I will still consider it(weightbelt) however, if things with the ACB continue to progress badly.

2. tombiowami - see above. Yes, I was overweighted and yes I am also overweight for my body size. I have been likened to Fred Flintstone - all head, neck chest and waist, with short little inconsequential legs....but please note...I do not have the beady little black eyes....mine are a sexy brown with "lashes to die for..."LOL Wasnt really stage fright as much as it was shock to see how far I had come mentally and physically since I took my OW last year. I spent a good 20 minutes after their class was over showing off my kit - and warning them that they too would soon be broke and to run away as fast as they could.

3. Wendy - The only salt water I see is when I have to gargle some after I have put my mouth somewhere I probably shoud not have. :tease: And dont forget....men always go way too fast and burn out quick when they are trying something new....BAM!!!
 
I dove almost the exact same rig last week. Halcyon ss plate (no sta), 36#wing, AL 80, drysuit, about 18# in the ABC pockets. The whole thing was an absolute dream. I realize this doesn't help.
My advice is to make sure you are not overweighted. How does the sta position the tank? I like the tank as close to my back as I can get it.
 
Originally posted by Windknot
1. Pug - My tank is as low as it is going to get. With the two piece STA from FredT and the short and fat Faber LP98 there is no more room to move the tank down.

As my wife is so fond of reminding me....I have no ass, I have no hips...nada.:D and I fear that a weight belt would just task and stress me in a new direction. (I essentially wear a weight belt every day at work as a police officer and I really have to torqe my belt down to keep it from sliding, and my hips or lack thereof ALWAYS hurt at the end of a shift.

Ah-Ha.... Hmmmm....

(Short Fat Tank + Krispy Kreme)

Hmmmm.....

Well I have solution but it'll cost ya:
1) LP 104 or 120
2) Carrot sticks & celery
3) these:
 
The 2-piece STA is designed to work with EITHER half, it's just more stable with two. As I said in my e-mail if you want to swap STAs to a one piece arrangement it's fine with me, but before investing in freight you might want to try this. Just lower the tank and use only the bottom STA and strap to grip it in the pool, with the upper STA in place only to retain the wing. If that helps the trim issue significantly then swapping STAs is the correct choice. If not you've saved yourself about $20 in freight.

RE MikeFerrara, The STA should have the tank surface about 1/4" to 3/8" above the "crest" of the plate, depending on tank diameter and "fitting." Minimum height is 3/16" plus the thickness of your cam strap, but this requires some file work to the "toes" of the STA to fit it to the specific tank size.
 
I will def concur with the Jetfins, and those nifty spring straps. Like a lot of DIR stuff for me it did not really make sense until I tried it.

It came clearer on a dive when I lost a fin strap and realized the importance of fins and not losing them.

If you do have issues with feet float, a pair of xlarge jetfins and springs will take care of that, and maybe even a pound or so of weight.


FredT, I just love it when salesman will lose a sale to help a customer.



Tommy
 
I think that spacing would be negligible. I asked because I was not familiar with the sta. Hope I didn't confuse the issue.
Mike
 

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