I think WetSuits are Safer and Better than Dry suits for the vast majority of divers

[Wayne at DiveSeekers]

Sorry, I dove a 5mm Wetsuit w/Hood for years and was getting cold! Don't get this whole speed diving thing! I lag behind when I was in a wetsuit and I lag behind in my drysuit. I am the first one in and the last one out, not worth it for me to dive if I can't be in the water for at least an hour! I like to shoot video and enjoy the beauty of the underwater world. Soooo, I guess i'm a bad diver?????? Sorry haven't dove wet in over 7 yrs and there is nothing appealling to me about being in a wetsuit. Drysuit keeps me warm and focused in the water.

DanVolker - I think your issue isn't the Drysuit but Training (here we go!!!!)! If everyone that came out with you on your boat was in a drysuit and in trim, and had control this discussion would not be taking place. So I personally teach Buoyancy, Trim, Advanced Finning Techniques Etc... in my drysuit class. I also don't teach using the Drysuit for main buoyancy. I also teach Proper weighting. So now, we just got to get all the other Drysuit Instructors to do their job right and you will then be a happy camper Maybe?????

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Now that I think about it, those sodium acetate heat packs I used to use for cold camping/hunting trips would be simpler and more reliable than this electric shirt stuff. Lo and behold, I'm not the first person to think that: WARM DIVES

I think I'll try one of these things next long deco and see how it goes, though their whole "SCUBA package" looks a bit excessive for tropical water needs.

 

[lilnik10]

This thread got my attention because I have been considering learning dry suit in order to extend my season. The main reason I am interested in diving dry is staying warmer during surface intervals. In the water, I am comfortable in my full 3 mm down to about 72 degrees and can tolerate down to 65 with my hood and gloves. I could get a thicker wetsuit but I have found when I am could during my surface intervals I tend to be colder during my subsequent dives. The OP warnings had me doubting that but the responses have helped reassure me that I will be fine with going dry. Thanks, this thread has been very helpful.


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[thez_yo]

I didn't hear the talk, but I believe I understand. If you're diving with an electric heater that goes out, you'll have less exposure protection than otherwise "required" for those conditions. If this happens before the end of your dive, you will find yourself in the water, severely under-dressed for the temperature. This could lead to hypothermia, increasing your chances for DCS. Lynne, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would have 2 concerns to address before I replace my d/s with a heater.
1) Will it last all day for 3-4 dives including surface intervals?
2) Am I 100% positive the battery is not going to fry and burn me in a failure mode?

Other than that, its a great idea and being able to control the heat is a bonus. I prefer a wet suite over a dry suit any time I don't risk freezing my butt off, typically multiple dives in winter. My dry suit has multiple failure modes, but only one (stuck inflation valve) has a serious risk and that can be addressed. The power pack in a LI battery pack can do significant damage.

I think I know the answer to this already, but did he mention any risks with not using it at depth but kicking on the heat for the last 1/2 to 2/3 or so of the deco hang? I would think it would actually up your deco efficiency quite a bit. I was fine this past weekend on the bottom at 270' in a lavacore shirt and dive trunks, despite the thermocline, but deco was another matter and I would dearly love to have a heated shirt I could turn on for the hang without to go through the trouble of diving a drysuit in HI.



The other problem as I understand it is that increased body temp equates to increased tissue perfusion and therefore increased gas loading/unloading. If you're warm on the bottom, you're going to uptake more gas than you otherwise would. Not a problem, as long as you're equally well-perfused on the way back up. But if you're cold, you'll be offgassing much more slowly.

The study Dr. Pollock reviewed for us showed significant utility to being warmer on deco. His point, and it is a good one, is that if you PLAN your NDLs to take advantage of that, you are in a world of hurt if, for some reason, the heated garment fails to function. Similarly, if you run the garment during the entire dive, you have a problem if it fails at some point.

The concept is that being warmer causes increased nitrogen uptake because it causes increased tissue perfusion in the skin and extremities. If you go from warm to cold, you are most efficiently absorbing nitrogen, and far less efficiently eliminating it.

Ah thanks. Luckily, we have a nasty thermocline that drops 10 degrees into the 50s or so if you go past 30' here, so you'll automatically be warmer while you're hanging out at the end of the dive in the 65ish degree water up top.

Also, the battery to my heater is a can-light battery for my light head, so it's outside of my wetsuit mounted on my bc. If the heater becomes too hot, I can unplug, and replug when necessary. That's the part that scares me about those chemically heated satchels like for inside of gloves on land - if it becomes too hot under the water, well, too bad.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

That's the part that scares me about those chemically heated satchels like for inside of gloves on land - if it becomes too hot under the water, well, too bad.

Yeah, I have no intention of sticking anything hot somewhere I cannot reach it. I'm thinking the right approach is to stuff a pair of decently sized ones into a dive shorts pocket, click them on somewhere around the first stop longer than a couple minutes, and stuff them under the armpits through the neck opening. Too hot, reach in and yank them out.

 

[Diver0001]

In regards to safety in semi tropical to tropical waters---say 68 degrees to 80 degree water, it would be my contention that wetsuits are far better and safer than are drysuits for recreational divers.

Depends on the extent of the diving you're doing. In those temperatures, I'll prefer to wear a dry suit for certain types of dives and exposure times.

Better and safer because they create far less drag, allowing the diver much better ability to propel themselves and to be as functional in the water as the conditions dictate( whereas the drysuit compromises propulsion to such a degree as to be dangerous in all but still water conditions).

This says volumes about the experience level and preferences of the OP but has little to no relevance to broader equipment considerations.

Better because they cost a fraction of what drysuits cost...

Reaching.

I don't recall price often being listed as a major consideration with respect to the suitability of a particular bit of gear for a particular context.

And safer because drysuit use creates a need for special instruction and skills which for most divers are never attained, and in comparison, skills performed in a wetsuit are typically far better for the vast majority of recreational divers than the same skills attempted in a dry suit....

Once agan, this says more about the person posting than the equipment.

As for fins and propulsion... again, this particular OP has a strong preference for a certain type of fin and a certain finning technique, which in itself strongly deviates from the norm. The arguments made reflect his own experience and have little bearing on what people are taught, or what they use in the real world.

Most Divers can be much better divers( higher skilled) with a wetsuit than they can be with a dry suit,

Everywhere where the OP says "most divers" you should replace with "I" and you'll get the point of this post. "most divers dive better in a wetsuit" really means "I dive better in a wetsuit". "for most divers it's a smarter choice" means "for ME it's a smarter choice". Seriously, just copy his post and find/replace the words "most divers" with "I" and you'll hear what he is really saying.

So my agenda here, is to tell those considering a Drysuit, to consider that they cost 3 times what a good wetsuit costs, and the additional costs of poor safety, poor ability to move around with the safety margins of a wetsuit, and the attendant reduced skills makes this just another money maker for the dive industry--and something really bad for most divers.

You know, Dan, you really should stick to talking about things you know about. If you don't like drysuits fine, but you should really only criticize things once you've used them enough to know what you're talking about. It really activates my allergy when people who don't (or seldom) use a particular bit of gear go on and on about how terrible it is.

R..

 

[danvolker]

Depends on the extent of the diving you're doing. In those temperatures, I'll prefer to wear a dry suit for certain types of dives and exposure times.



This says volumes about the experience level and preferences of the OP but has little to no relevance to broader equipment considerations.



Reaching.

I don't recall price often being listed as a major consideration with respect to the suitability of a particular bit of gear for a particular context.


Once agan, this says more about the person posting than the equipment.

As for fins and propulsion... again, this particular OP has a strong preference for a certain type of fin and a certain finning technique, which in itself strongly deviates from the norm. The arguments made reflect his own experience and have little bearing on what people are taught, or what they use in the real world.



Everywhere where the OP says "most divers" you should replace with "I" and you'll get the point of this post. "most divers dive better in a wetsuit" really means "I dive better in a wetsuit". "for most divers it's a smarter choice" means "for ME it's a smarter choice". Seriously, just copy his post and find/replace the words "most divers" with "I" and you'll hear what he is really saying.



You know, Dan, you really should stick to talking about things you know about. If you don't like drysuits fine, but you should really only criticize things once you've used them enough to know what you're talking about. It really activates my allergy when people who don't (or seldom) use a particular bit of gear go on and on about how terrible it is.

R..

Diver0001, I can use a Drysuit as well as most of the people teaching Drysuits......You have no idea about my diving skills, but I was one of George Irvine's most prefferred buddies on any extreme tech dive in the Ocean back when he was doing the most extreme dives in the world. I had to use a dry suit on tech dives due to depth and uselessness of wetsuits at 280.

There is no GUE diver that will comfortably swim with my buddies and I in Wetsuits,if they are in a Dry suit, ( my evil twin in a drysuit would be left behind as well) .... unless we are going slow--which will happen on some dives...on other dives, we will go slow over a target rich area--say on the offshore reef Fingers at 95 feet( for example), do this for 15 minutes, then swim up over the 40 foot crown, and accross to the inshore ledge 200 yards sideways to the current and depth of 55 feet on bottom....( west of the outside ledge)...this is point A to Point B travel, and the crown has nothing on it that we are PLANNING on shooting on some days--so the idea is to cross it at a comfortable cruising pace....Every single Dry suit diver on this board, would be crossing so slowly, that it would be an annoyance to be forced into wasting time waiting for them, and the entire time we go slow with them, it means we lose lots of inshore ledge from the down current drift....The issue is gear that makes you a liability to buddies.

Maybe you should get some more dives under your belt before you make such foolish projections about me or anyone else you have not dove with.
And certainly you should stick to still water dive sites where your skill level will allow you to be comfortable with your drysuit .

 

[ams511]

You dive in South Florida. I dive in California. Our POV is different. Being warm increases my ability to off gas, allows me to move more freely and prevents me from getting hypothermic on surface intervals. Hypothermia is not safe.
My diving comfort and safety has greatly increased since diving dry. I started in Puget Sound, diving 14mls on the core, unable to move comfortably, cold for dives longer than 30 minutes, exhausted after getting my wetsuit on. No fun! Now, with my older joints, I won't even consider diving wet if temps are less than 75 degrees.

The solution is simple, dive in South Florida. I am sure Dan can hook you up.

 

[TSandM]

Dan, I think Rob has a point; your writings are pertinent to the diving you do in the area where you dive, and with the objectives you have for diving. I tried to point out in my earlier post that not everybody dives in those conditions or has those objectives. You are quite welcome to insist that people doing the dives you describe with you dive wet; personally, were I to do what you describe, I would use a scooter.

You started the thread by saying that you think wetsuits are SAFER. I think that is true, if the diver has poor dry suit skills. Most of us who own dry suits learn to dive them.

 

[RJP]

My contention is that the vast majority of recreational divers should simply stick with snorkeling instead. Recreational scuba is far more expensive than snorkeling, with the additional costs of poor safety, etc making scuba diving nothing but a money-maker for the dive industry.

My further contention is that the vast majority of snorkelers should simply visit an aquarium instead. Snorkeling is far more expensive than visiting an aquarium, with the additional costs of poor safety, etc making snorkeling nothing but a money-maker for the snorkeling industry.

Of course, I firmly believe that aquarium visitors should simply read books about fish instead. Visiting an aquarium is far more expensive than reading a book, with the additional costs of parking, etc making aquarium visiting nothing but a money-maker for the aquarium industry.

And don't get me started about you book readers... with your poor reading comprehension skills and the potential for a nasty paper cut. It's far safer to simply close your eyes and imagine fish!

If the world would agree with Dan and I on these few simple points I would encounter far fewer crowds as I travel the world's best tropical dive locales doing as many as six dives a day in my trusty drysuit. As you can see below, my propulsion is so compromised I am in abject danger in all but still waters.

Somehow, at the age of forty, I was able to overcome the inherent risks associated with such a complex piece of rubber and nylon equipment, and not die immediately, or get swept away by adverse hydrodynamic forces. I guess I'd be a far better diver in a wetsuit... though I may well have given diving up years ago if I hadn't started diving dry everywhere but a heated pool.