I think WetSuits are Safer and Better than Dry suits for the vast majority of divers

[danvolker]

I think that most of us can agree that a diver with VERY poor skills that intends to dive less than one trip per year and is ONLY diving in extremely warm conditions and in very shallow water should not be diving a drysuit. What we are CLEARLY disagreeing with Dan Volker about is this type of diver is "the vast majority" of divers. Not only that, it is absolutely irrational to believe that these divers (ones with <1 trip per year with poor skills, diving only in extremely warm conditions in shallow water) would be interested in purchasing EITHER a drysuit or wetsuit heater.

Also, thanks for cleaning that up.

Clearly you have no sense of what Florida diving is like....we have many regular divers that get into doing 1 to 2 dives per week, or at least 2 per month, as soon as the wether warms up in late spring....this behavior continues untill the storms hit in November or so, and boat have to cancel dives, and the habits slow....then the water drops to 70 or 68 or so, and many of these are down to once a month...if the weather is nice....
In January, the diving can be great, but many sit on the surface interval and shiver...some buy Jackets known as Warm winds, and they help a little.... Some use Heat packs ..another better option than drysuits and alternative to heated undergarments--such as what you find at Hotshotz Reusable Heat Packs
Most go from the thin wetsuits they used in summer, to the winter weight wetsuits they own for winter.... Now this is one area several posters in this thread are just not able to understand--so I will say it again for you.....this very large population of divers, many , many times larger than the little troop of cold water dry suit divers with their noses so out of joint by this thread.....this much larger population already owns at least one wetsuit, and many of them own several, and with several different thicknesses. So --for those of you that are slow.....most of the people I aimed this at have a big investment in wet suits already, and even though they may "think" they would like to dive all winter, between storms, and really nasty days, they will get out of the habit, and they will be luck to dive 4 times between December and April. Again, this is a much larger group than is represented by the slow to comprehend cold water divers on this board.

For this group of divers in Florida and the Caribbean, the heat packs or the Heated undersuit, will be smarter than Dry suits.....Unfortunately, many of the Dive shops in Florida or elsewhere, will try to sell this very large group of divers a drysuit for Winter....and it is not such a hard sale for them to make--it sounds great in the pitch...but these divers don't realize that they would need significant training to use these suits, they will be much slower than before--they may not fit into some BC's any more, and suddenly they need a lot more lead...with all the attendant problems this brings...then some shops will sell them hp100s that weight 6 pounds or more than the AL 80's they were used to using, so the shops really do well with all the new items that become necessary....and then a few more storms hit in January, these divers are getting maybe one dive in per month, and their skill levels in the dry suit never improve.....and then finally it is summer, and they can't wait to get out of the nasty dry suits.

 

[victorzamora]

You're CLEARLY not reading what either of us is saying. Anybody diving two dives per week should be easily good enough to dive a drysuit, and is diving often enough to merit a drysuit. A diver that buys a drysuit and dives a drysuit can dive said drysuit practically year-round in Florida.

Having said that, please remember that your statement is "wetsuits are safer and better than dry suits for the VAST MAJORITY OF DIVERS." What it's become now is "electric wetsuit heaters are better than drysuits for a very small group of Florida divers, despite the relatively negligible cost difference." In that case, I'll STILL disagree with you. I'd rather dive dry than with an electric wetsuit heater. I'd rather dive dry in the summer in FL than wet with an electric wetsuit heater. I think you're blowing the skill required to dive a drysuit WAY out of proportion. Do you even DIVE a drysuit? It seems like you either read one guy's horror story in a drysuit (WAY too big, maybe?) or have had one dive that ended poorly in a drysuit. You also seem to be blaming drysuits for bad technique. I've seen WAY more bad divers in wetsuits than in drysuits.....is that the fault of the wetsuit?

 

[nimoh]

Just to be clear, I am primarily a cold water diver, although my nose is not out of joint due to this discussion. I will concede that you know a lot more about diving in Florida than I do. I do agree that drysuits have increased drag, but don't see it as a big enough problem to be concerned with. I will also agree that the training that goes with a drysuit is a necessary cost, and drysuits are inherently unsafe for untrained divers.

Ultimately your arguments have not convinced me that tropical diving in a wetsuit is safer than diving in a drysuit, although I am convinced that diving in a wetsuit is less expensive, and equally safe.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

I am a Florida diver in Dan's neck of the woods. I bought a drysuit to use for winter diving. I hated it. Bought a 6.5mil semi-dry design wetsuit. I loved it. Sold the drysuit without any regrets.

Down here we all tend to dive less in the winter, more due to rough sea conditions than cold water. It is not to my taste to boat dive in a 5 foot nasty steep chop during windy fronts. I dive whenever I can but from November through April I might only get in 20 or so dives, compared with double that from May through October. If we have some of those epic two week winter calm spells I dive more because those are just the best dives you can get. I did not find that the effort to truly master and become skilled with the drysuit was worthwhile for a Florida ocean diver because I just don't get in enough winter dives to master it. Also, I hated the bulk, the slowness, the extra weight, extra effort in current dives, etc. Nor did I find it very much warmer as humidity build up in the drysuit was unpleasantly cool and to compensate requires yet more bulk with thicker undegarments. Even on my 3 hour dives at Blue Heron Bridge, my 6.5 mil wetsuit keeps me plenty warm even if the water is 68 to 70 degrees. On a boat, if there is a cool breeze, my dive parka keeps me warm. All with none of the downsides that a drysuit has.

If I dove year round in cold water, so that every dive was improving my dry suit skill, it might be a different matter. My comments are just for the Florida diving I do.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think victorsamora's last post merits a follow up question to Dan:

When you say in the thread title that "wetsuits are better then dry suits for the vast majority of divers," what do you mean by "the vast majority of divers"? Are you referring only to the vast majority of divers in south Florida and the Caribbean? If so, then I would guess pretty much everyone would have agreed with you and there would have been no further discussion in the thread.

Or did you mean something else?

 

[danvolker]

I think victorsamora's last post merits a follow up question to Dan:

When you say in the thread title that "wetsuits are better then dry suits for the vast majority of divers," what do you mean by "the vast majority of divers"? Are you referring only to the vast majority of divers in south Florida and the Caribbean? If so, then I would guess pretty much everyone would have agreed with you and there would have been no further discussion in the thread.

Or did you mean something else?

The vast majority of divers ARE DIVING IN TROPICAL WATERS....and I was very clear that I was talking about Tropical diving.... UNfortunately, 3/4 of this board are too self involved to read in anything other than how any idea effects them personally.....And even in tropical diving--during winter time, many shops ARE trying to sell dry suits!

 

[victorzamora]

I'll agree with you that the vast majority of divers dive in tropical waters. I disagree that the vast majority of divers dive EXCLUSIVELY in tropical waters. I completely disagree that the vast majority of divers that would be looking into getting a drysuit would dive exclusively in tropical waters.

I've done nearly ALL of my dives in water at or above 68F. You used this number earlier referring to your "tropical waters" term. All of my dives in water below 78F are now done dry. Above that, I have a shorty. I absolutely SUFFERED diving wet (3mm j/j) in 72F water....and it wasn't just the dive. It was everything after the first dive.

 

[danvolker]

You're CLEARLY not reading what either of us is saying. Anybody diving two dives per week should be easily good enough to dive a drysuit, and is diving often enough to merit a drysuit. A diver that buys a drysuit and dives a drysuit can dive said drysuit practically year-round in Florida.

Diving a drysuit in summer in Florida is miserable.....Only a few cave divers do this, probably so they can stay practiced at peak skills in the dry suit--for cave.

Having said that, please remember that your statement is "wetsuits are safer and better than dry suits for the VAST MAJORITY OF DIVERS."

And of course, you were unable to understand the meaning of the "for Tropical and semi tropical waters" that went immediately in on the first post on this thread. And, the vast majority of divers are not tech divers, they are not cave divers, and they are not cold water divers....the vast majority of divers are warm water divers.....

What it's become now is "electric wetsuit heaters are better than drysuits for a very small group of Florida divers, despite the relatively negligible cost difference."

This is like a remedial reading 2nd grade class!!!! How many times do I need to suggest you consider where most of the world's diving takes place....it is in the tropics. If you are diving in a place with 32 or 40 degree water, YOU will be representing the tiny group of divers....the Florida and Caribbean diver population is likely the largest population of divers in the world. This encompasses Palm Beach, Lauderdale, Miami, all of the Keys, Grand Cayman, Mexico, the Bahamas, and more than a dozen other diving hot spots....what are you thinking when you suggest I am talking about a tiny group of divers in Florida? And as to the cost difference....you also missed that the vast majority of these divers in the tropics, have a wetsuit, or 2 or 3....and that it is much less expensive to go with heat packs or the electric undershirt....heat packs for well under $100...

In that case, I'll STILL disagree with you. I'd rather dive dry than with an electric wetsuit heater. I'd rather dive dry in the summer in FL than wet with an electric wetsuit heater.

I would love to see you sweating to death on a boat in 95 degree weather, hoping to cool down in water.......Once in, with all the sweat, you are quite a bit less comfortable than you might think.

I think you're blowing the skill required to dive a drysuit WAY out of proportion. Do you even DIVE a drysuit?
It seems like you either read one guy's horror story in a drysuit (WAY too big, maybe?) or have had one dive that ended poorly in a drysuit.

You can be pretty comfortable that I am good in a drysuit, having used them for hundreds of tech dives on high current wrecks and reefs between 200 and 280 feet deep. I have a DUI TLS 350, custom. Way custom.....The only thing that will get me in it now is a tech dive where we expect the water at depth, to be 60's or 50's....Otherwise, it is a liability. It's shocking to see how many of you guys are clueless as to how slow a drysuit is in the water...I can only imagine how extremely slow you swim. I hope you are a macro photographer.

You also seem to be blaming drysuits for bad technique. I've seen WAY more bad divers in wetsuits than in drysuits.....is that the fault of the wetsuit?

This one is like guns....people kill people, not guns.....But drysuits do require more training, and the right configuration....and if you visit FLORIDA in the winter time, you will see a great deal of divers that figured they did not need the instruction, because they had been diving so long....whatever, and they dive poorly in them...many of these dove poorly in the wetsuits also, but now they have only half of the speed they had before, so it is that much easier for them to be swept away, or to run out of air before all the other divers.

 

[al248005]

You can be pretty comfortable that I am good in a drysuit, having used them for hundreds of tech dives on high current wrecks and reefs between 200 and 280 feet deep. I have a DUI TLS 350, custom. Way custom.....The only thing that will get me in it now is a tech dive where we expect the water at depth, to be 60's or 50's....Otherwise, it is a liability. It's shocking to see how many of you guys are clueless as to how slow a drysuit is in the water...I can only imagine how extremely slow you swim. I hope you are a macro photographer.

Liability??? Are you suggesting now that diving insurance companies raise the cost of insurance for people who dive drysuits?

 

[tomfcrist]

I lived in Key West for a few years and honestly never saw a need for a drysuit. That being said i dove dry on the Oriskany in July, and was quite comfortable. As far as the issue of drag, I dont find too much drag in my Fusion, but it doesnt matter to me anyway because im diving to see things, not race mario andretti style from one end of the dive site to the other.

I would tend to agree that the majority of divers are tropical type divers, but thats only because they arent interested in diving in the cold. For an experianced diver, there is no increased risk involved in diving dry in florida or any other tropical destination, although there are only a couple reasons i can think of to do so. 1) The water temp is cold(winter) and 2) liveaboard diving(tend to chill a bit after 20 dives in a few days).