I love new divers - but whats the definition??

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

Does it really matter? It's all just semantics anyways.

You're right in the sense that "experience" may not matter as much as skill. The Steeler's quarterback Big Ben had started only one year in high school and three years in college when he became a starting QB and, after a single year in the pros, won the Super Bowl. Boris Becker was only 17 and a pro for a year when he won his first Wimbledon. Experience isn't the issue, ability is. And I think its more than semantics for dive operators and dive buddies to have some idea of the skill level of an unknown diver. And, as noted previously, numbers or years certified don't necessarily translate into skill or safety.

 

[scuba-doc]

Speaking of # of dives, it should also be noted that # of logged dives is sometimes completely different than # of total dives. For those that were lucky enough to begin diving through a dive class, they learned to properly log dives from Day 1. But someone like myself, who grew up in Miami Beach and has been Scuba Diving since 13 (a couple of years before getting certified), I literally have thousands of unlogged dives over the past 20+ years vs. the 400 or so I've logged to date. I really only logged dives during courses and sometimes when working as a Divemaster, but never while going out for dives a couple of times a week while growing up in Miami Beach. And keep in mind that each time we go out on our boats, we might hit the water 10+ times while spearfishing / lobstering (surface each time you catch a fish or if you want to move to a better reef) ..... imagine logging each one of those dives each time :shakehead .

A better example is my friend who had been diving for over 20 years without being certified. He finally got certified a few years ago only because he wanted to make sure he would be able to go diving on his Caribbean honeymoon. It turns out that he forgot his C-card, but still dove the 70 ft wreck without a tank (tremendous free diver) . Despite the many very experienced divers I've met during my training, etc, he's probably the most "experienced" diver I know....yet he probably has only a few "logged" dives, none fewer than the past 5 years, and the highest certification level of OW.

With that in mind, who would you rather have next to you at 80' when something malfunctions? The 100 logged diver with many of those dives being shallow pool dives (instructional purposes), or the 10 logged diver (none within the past 5 years) with 3000++ unlogged dives (as recently as whenever the conditions were decent)?

Just a thought...

 

[Nemrod]

Proud to have ZERO (0.00000) logged dives in 40 years of fairly regular diving.

Yep, it just semantics, it is all equal, there is no right and wrong, words have no meaning.

N

 

[jeckyll]

Proud to have ZERO (0.00000) logged dives in 40 years of fairly regular diving.

Yep, it just semantics, it is all equal, there is no right and wrong, words have no meaning.

N

LOL

I was actually referring to "What is the definitions of a newbie". I don't think the definition matters.

 

[spectrum]

I have been lucky to share initial dives with a handful of freshly certified divers as well as some returning from years away from the sport. Who did I consider to be a new diver?

Well considering that I have only been certified for 17 months but I'm approaching 200 dives it becomes an odd one to answer. It's a lot like when I wonder what I'm going to do when I grow up and then realize I'm 50 in a few weeks!

In general when a diver conducts himself or herself in a competent and confident manner and assumes the role of peer I seek to consider them new or rusty. That works fine for a given dive type.

In the case of making a New England shore dive I see my self as having significant experience. It's a setting where I'm very comfortable and consider myself capable. It also happens to be the setting of all of my training.

Now take me on a boat to dive to a wreck in significant current and I know I have a lot of gaps to close in knowledge and experience. I have a body of cold water limited visibility diving that will transfer to this setting but I'd consider myself new here and would not propose to be the lead of a buddy pair. So I think there is room for both in a divers description.

Likewise some divers have no aspiration to dive outside of tropical or their own local waters. I can't see why one would consider themselves new to diving on the basis of non-diversification.

If I try to boil it down to dive count then I have to include frequency. I would much rather dive with the new diver who has been diving once a week after getting certified 2 months ago that the one certified 24 months ago with 16 dives.

Attitude for lack of a better term has to count for a lot as well. Some divers ask, read, listen and are critical of their diving and seek to improve at every opportunity. Others consider returning alive as prima fascia evidence of ability and never demonstrate nor inspire confidence.

So when is a diver not a "new diver" to me? Moderate experience and a lot of state of mind I guess.

Pete

 

[lundysd]

I consider myself a "newbie" because I still learn something new on every dive. When I stop learning something on every dive, I will no longer consider myself a new diver..... I hope that day never comes

 

[spectrum]

I consider myself a "newbie" because I still learn something new on every dive. When I stop learning something on every dive, I will no longer consider myself a new diver..... I hope that day never comes

Reminds me of my definition of a good dive...

Nobody got hurt + All the gear came back + I learned someting.

Pete

 

[The Horn]

As shakeybrainsurgeon stated earilier it seems that alot of divers consider Scuba a competition sport...more dives....higher certification.....when does it end?

All things aside basic training ends with OW and you are no longer "new" to diving. you should have the basics down.

You earn your stripes by practicing and doing. For some people they seek further guidance and for others they steam out on thier own.

I really had a scratch of the head when it came to getting an advanced certification. Not because I didn't want to learn or dive but mostly because I didn't see the point of a higher certification card with ten years OW. To me there are only two cert cards for normal diving: OW and Instructor. The Instructor is an OW diver who wants to teach. In between there are various levels of Experience. Charters wanted to see the "card" so...

I think Dive agencies filled up the middle ground with certifications because: some people requested it, there is a need to make money and it provides proof of dive time for those wishing to Instruct. I totally do not see the point of "specialty courses"....but thats just me

We must not forget that all the training and ideas, equipment etc is based on alot of trial and error and experimentation by people who just had to try it or wanted to make something better. Doing something cautiously and safely until you gain experience, changing gear and gear configuration etc.

Newbie? Its all realitive to how comfortable you feel in a particular diving scenario

 

[HowDidIGetIntoThis?]

I am a newbie and expect to remain so "forever" by virtue of limited opportunities to dive; a penchance for going somewhere different on every trip; and a healthy, if not pathological, respect for all that can go awry (thanks largely to this excellent forum).

Which leads to the question of what defines a non-newbie - when I show up at a dive operators site and he wants to divide the group into experienced and inexperienced divers what criteria should he / I use? Presumably most of the divers haven't visited that location before so first visit isn't an adquate criterion - repeat customers are easy to classify.

 

[TSandM]

I guess I sort of divide the world into three basic kinds of divers: New divers, average divers, and experienced or highly trained divers.

Certainly, for the first couple dozen dives after certification, I think people are new. I would expect a new diver to be a little hesitant or awkward about certain basic mechanics, whether it's being a little slow to get gear set up and adjusted correctly, or having to think through descent procedures, or having some buoyancy issues. Much is being processed consciously -- Most diving skills are either at the conscious incompetent or conscious competence level.

An average diver has gotten past that initial awkward period. Handling, assembling and adjusting gear is pretty much second nature. Basic diving tasks are now mostly at the unconscious competence level, although being challenged with unfamiliar conditions or significant task loading can change that. I think this is where most of us live.

Experienced or high trained divers have reduced MOST diving activities to unconscious competence, even in the face of challenging conditions or significant task loading. They have experience in a wide variety of conditions and have coped with and survived a number of stressful incidents. The guy who is running our wreck workshop this weekend, who is Tech 2 Cave 2 certified, falls in this category.

How many dives it takes to get from one category to another is going to vary from person to person. You can almost certainly say that somebody with 6 lifetime dives is new; somebody with 3000 may not make it into the third category.