I had trouble with the CESA

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Just wondering, for those who do run out of air to exhale during a cesa, can they at that point hold their breath safely? (I'm assuming so since there's little to no air left to cause AGE and if there was, they could periodically try to see if it expanded enough to allow them to exhale a little more).
 
Just wondering, for those who do run out of air to exhale during a cesa, can they at that point hold their breath safely? (I'm assuming so since there's little to no air left to cause AGE and if there was, they could periodically try to see if it expanded enough to allow them to exhale a little more).

As long as you're ascending you can't really run out. The air in your lungs will keep expanding as you go up. Remember as long as you're creating a sound, your airway is open and the expanding gas has a way to escape.
 
As long as you're ascending you can't really run out. The air in your lungs will keep expanding as you go up. Remember as long as you're creating a sound, your airway is open and the expanding gas has a way to escape.

Need to bear in mind, that even with the most complete exhalation, the lungs retain a considerable amount of air inside. You can't completely deflate them, no matter how hard you try.

This is called the Residual Volume (RV) - and for the average human measures approx 1.35 - 1.7 liters. Measure that residual capacity against the pressure differentials from even relatively shallow diving depths and you'll soon discover that 'empty lungs' can still expand and blow before reaching the surface.

Lung volumes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Back in the day..we did a blow n go..I think we called it a bail out from depth..(j-valve. no pressure gauge..(butt divin'..if your butt rises you're running low on air)...reg was hard to breathe from shallow and only got harder deeper..when it failed it just shut down..no more air..we learned how to remove the reg underwater and breathe off the tank..be careful not to blow your head off..if you turn the valve too quick..use just your lungs for buoyancy..a harness kept the tank on your back...as time went on.. updated gear was a horse collar..oral inflation only and we tried to breath off it (got sick mostly) updated collar had a power inflate..now we've got Pressure gauges, actual depth gauges (computers too).., easy breathing regs..with octos and B/C's (How magic is that??
Your butt still floats as you run thru your air..
Have done countless CESA training as an Instructor..It's gotta be the most dangerous skill we teach...just don't bear down and hold your breath, a growl works well..yelling will cause you to continue to be starved for air....and please..dont go up too fast (I prefer 30ft per..60 is mighty fast..but acceptable) The hard part, as I see it from my divers point of view, is the oral inflation at the surface..
..If you use a steel tank..as I do.. it's pretty much negative empty.. most divers use regular aluminum tanks...they'll float empty..(bottoms up)....full tanks sink..
Two important thing to remember...the reg stays in (you'll get some air on the way up..and be prevented from inhaling water.. it's gotta still be in your mouth)..and your weights..ditch at the surface... if you choose to not deal with oral inflation.. It's called a Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent.."Controlling" the ascent is key..
The practice you do in the pool is purely "pretend" not the reality..a bit harder too..(no expansion in the pool)....I do insist they locate their weight release (buckle or pocket pull) as part of the exercise ..it's all about options..keeping the option to release open.. avoids fumbling to locate the release ..then choose to oral inflate at the surface or drop and not.
We do some oral inflation on the surface..till the weight system is declared dropped.
We do some oral inflation underwater..to achieve and maintain neutral while underwater..and again at the surface.. as part of a normal dive and ascent too...just so it won't be such a big deal if ever you experience a auto-power inflate malfunction..and have had to disconnect
As I counsel my students...always be in control..be not afraid to practice, pretend the what if's and then practice some more..
Hope this helps.. (guess I got a bit long winded)
just my 2cents
 
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I also get them practicing time vs distance on the surface. It's easier to do more repetition (and correction) there, than on the bottom.

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I do something similar. Standing in the shallow end of the pool, we go through the "motions" of what they are going to do. First breath, inflator up; second breath, look up; third breath, swim up with the "aaa,eee,ooo,etc." sound. At that point everyone is standing up with both hands in the air, looking at the ceiling and making noise. Oh yeah, they are also stamping their feet like they are swimming. Most are surprised that they can do it for 20-30 seconds. After that, doing it horizontal in the pool is a piece of cake for them. Of course OW is even easier.

Bill
 
A couple of clarifying points...

If you're doing the PADI OW certification, you'll do one CESA for your checkout dives, and it'll have to be from around 30-35 feet deep, I think.

20 to 30 feet, if it's PADI certification.


2) when you do the CESA from depth, it takes a few kicks to really start going up, but you accelerate as you go up, so it doesn't take very long to go up 30 feet (maybe 30 seconds total)

If you are neutrally buoyant when you begin the CESA from depth, it won't take a few kicks to start going up, you'll just slowly swim your way to the surface. No need to accelerate on the way up - this is a "Controlled" ascent. And how long should it take to travel 30 seconds ascending? At LEAST 30 seconds.


kari
 
The problem dive students have with the CESA is between their ears. So much about it when it is first explained is counter-intuitive: What do you mean, ascend from 30 feet without taking a breath? At a 1 foot per second ascent, that means 30 seconds- I know I'll run out of air! and so on. Simulating the CESA in a surface swim or horizontal swim in a pool is much more difficult that doing one as an actual ascent. The fact is that due to decreasing pressure as you ascend you have the use of about two full breaths, not one. When I am asked to remediate with a student having an issue with this, I remove the fear factors, which are the problems, by telling them that they will have plenty of air, that they need to need to decide on a method to keep their air way open- like a hum or a jaw forward position. We do the exercise with reg in moth, instructor watching for the continuous exhalation. On this skill, I think instructors often contribute to stress in their presentation. They speak of EMERGENCY in stead of speaking of it as one of many alternatives if you ever do encounter an out of air situation. As noted above, practice it anywhere. If you can do a 15 second controlled exhale on land you can do a 30 second one on a real CESA. This skill, unlike many others, cannot routinely be practiced on every dive, but can be practiced at the end of dives on a regular basis. Good for you if you practice it, but please practice it with your reg in your mouth!
DivemasterDennis
DivemasterDennis
 
I second the tune thing- I usually opt for "Raiders of the Lost Ark".

It's easy to breath out or hum a tune while sitting, next step is to practice it walking and then walking at pace.

Unfortunately this is one of the skills that do not get enough time during many OW training courses. I know that in my time in SE Asia working to a 3 day schedule, the CESA was a minimum-standard exercise. Not proud to admit it but there you go.

CMAS 4* by the way have a pretty mean exercise supposedly to simulate a submarine escape with inflated jacket.
I like this idea. I've got an OW student now who will work on the CESA in the pool today. I've decided to suggest humming the theme from Superman since it might help him to remember to extend his arms during the practice dive.
 
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