I drank the GUE Fundies Kool-Aid and survived!!

[kathydee]

Having had some DIR guy tell my 16 year old son, on his first boat dive after OW that he was going to die (his word, not mine) because he and I wer diving incorrectly, didn't have enough training, and were wearing inadequate gear, frankly has firmly set my view of DIR divers.

I've had other experiences with the DIR crowd around here, and while none was as bad as that - to a person they have been condescending, dismissive and flat out rude as they clearly are so much better than anyone else.

But given the ratio, I'm pretty sure being a jerk is either a requirement for certification or at least a normal bi-product of being part of that community.

I am sorry you had such negative experiences - After comments like that - I'd probably be prejudice too (But I'll assure you not all DIR divers are jerks - I've been lucky to only meet helpful ,friendly ones ). Sure they are a bit tough, but it makes me listen.

For a true evaluation of something’s worth, I think its important to investigate beyond initial impressions & personalities that offend. Have you read any of the DIR books, watched the training DVD's, or really seen these divers in action underwater? Have you tried diving in the recommended DIR gear configuration, or noticed their impressive focus on predive checks/underwater safety/team work?

I have! And I am convinced that the dark-side-Kool-Aid cult reputation is a hoax. From what I have learned so far, in actuality this training system is perhaps the best available in the SCUBA world. Who can complain about a training system that liberates the ambitious diver into greater, safer, underwater fun, while providing access to exceptional partners?

I can't wait to start classes!

Enough of the hi-jack!

 

[Mayor]

Congratulations on getting through the class!

 

[ohmdiver]

Stop it, Ohm, I am not among the elite, unless your definition of elite is anyone fortunate enough to dive!!!!

No one should ever dive with a dangerous diver so I will not dive with a dangerous diver. If you say yes to all of the questions below, I will dive with you.

• Will you donate your regulator if I needed it underwater?
• Will you stay by my side and be my buddy, NOT swim off or bolt to the surface when I have enough gas for us both to surface doing all our required ascent stops?
• Will you dive safe and within the limit of our training?
• Will we have, discuss and agree on a dive plan that includes enough gas to get us both back to the surface, boat or shore safely before heading into the water?

Am sure I'm leaving out more questions but it's after midnight in London now so I'm sleepy...yawn!!

You know I will dive with you and say yes at every opportunity..:kiss2::kiss2:

 

[SCUBA Q]

Sam,

Your description of class brings back memories. A great experience, also with Bob Sherwood.

I've never had a negative experience with GUE style divers, and think it's unfortunate that a few overtly opinionated "personalities" can ruin what is a well thought out diving method.

I don't think anyone should dive with unsafe divers, and I don't think training agencies teach divers to to be unsafe...everyone learns to monitor their pressure gauge, donate a regulator, stay with their buddy, and dive to their level of training.

For me, Fundies presented a means of performing these tasks in a manor which minimized stress through a preferred technique (I've been the overweighted diver low on gas, vertical in the water column, finning furiously to control poor buoyancy...and realized this behavior could get me into trouble).

My personal opinion is greater comfort while underwater leads to safer diving (NOT to be confused with complacency); clear heads can more efficiently address problems.

I can honestly say GUE Fundamentals has made me a more comfortable diver.

 

[HenrikBP]

I was one of Sam's classmates for GUE Fundies this week - no, fortunately not the crotch-strap grab one

I had done a GUE demo in NYC with Ed Hayes last year, and did the GUE demo with Bob Sherwood a few months ago. After the Demo with Ed I was convinced I wanted to do Fundies, and was thrilled that it all came together with Sam and the others.

I've been certified for a bit over 3 years, but despite several extra courses always felt that I was missing something in both skills and knowledge - and quite frankly, most of the courses I've taken - and paid good $$ for - have been quite disappointing. I've gained a lot of knowledge and ideas for skills from ScubaBoard, but it's no substitute for good training.

So off we went to do Fundies ...

I had done my best to prepare myself for a humbling experience; You know "the course is what's important - not the grade". "These guys have been diving at very high levels for many years - no need to feel awkward just 'cause I don't have similar water skills". "Just relax, you'll do better ..." and so on.

Yet still - it was incredible to see the watermanship of Bob and Steve. Just amazing - and very hard not to look at the video review and just cringe - oh boy. The video is a great tool - and fortunately often quite hilarious as well

But as Sam explained much better than I - There was a very positive and supportive attitude, both in our group of student, and just as important - from Bob and Steve. There were no attitudes, no yelling , no superiority complex. Just calm and supportive, constructive feed-back.

Now, I'm not saying it wasn't hard, both skill-wise and mentally. I went into the course with an open mind, and thought I was doing OK under water. A few drills later I realized I could use quite a bit of additional training. After one particularly embarrassing dive, where my lack of buoyancy control on an air sharing ascent would have drowned my poor team mate, I was indeed typing up the eBay ad in my mind on the swim back to shore.

But we all had days and dives like that - and we got only support and encouragement from instructors and team mates. Good stuff I tell ya'.

After some remedial work and practicing descent/ascent drills I got a full pass. Just need to do the timed swim and the underwater breath-hold swim to get the cert. More importantly I have learned a ton, and those scary blank spots in skills and knowledge have gotten smaller. I now also have a really good library of skills and drills to practice to further improve my diving.

As for the GUE style diving - well, it can certainly seem somewhat restrictive at first glance. The *huge* advantage is the emphasis on Team and safe diving. But there's been plenty of fights about that particular topic on SB already - no need to rehash. Bottom line is you can choose to dive like that or not.

So in summary; Fundies - to me - was worth every penny and every day of hard earned vacation time. It's given me some purpose and direction to my continuing training as a diver. As someone here on SB wrote recently (I'm paraphrasing): "Fundies is about doing simple skills precisely". And I think that once I become better at exactly that, my comfort in the water will improve tremendously.

A huge Thank You to Bob Sherwood, Steve Millington and my team mates.

Henrik

 

[Ben_ca]

Congratulations Sam (and Henrik) on the class...

I think you'll notice that this will open up your diving to a different level. I've had very good experiences diving with other GUE trained divers from around the country either here in my local area (Monterey) and when I travel around the country. Not having to stress about whether your buddy can do midwater hangs or that you'll have to figure out how to do handsignals all over again is refreshing.

Enjoy your diving and welcome to the club.

Ben

 

[TSandM]

You know, it's funny, the only person who has ever come up to me in a parking lot and criticized my gear was telling me he didn't think it was safe to dive without a pony bottle, and he thought I should know that I didn't have to dive those antique fins any more

Any group has jerks in it -- doesn't matter what group it is.

What I've found about GUE-trained divers is this: They are willing to spend their own time to lend gear, demonstrate skills, take novice divers out, do practice dives with people who have gone through classes and know they need work, and answer questions about the system. Look at the list of people on this board who have signed up to meet with anybody who wants to learn about what we do!

Nobody has to dive this way. It appeals to a certain demographic, and some of us really find great joy in both the polishing of personal skills, and the experience of a seamless team.

I'm glad the OP had a good class. And given her obvious enjoyment, I don't think she should run away. I suspect she will have a great time practicing with her classmates, and watching the pleasure of each dive increase as her control of herself and her integration into her team improves.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Any group has jerks in it -- doesn't matter what group it is

No doubt that's true. Around me, it appears to be more or less the entire group. I'm not saying that every DIR person is a total waste. There's lots of people here I respect for both their knowledge and for the way the conduct themselves on this board who I know are part of the GUE / DIR world.

But the comment was made about where the reputation comes from - and I answered it. There are people out there who are the polar opposite of TSandM and other's around here. And they are the representative sample of my local DIR community.

And honestly, I tend to judge and comment on people I've actually met in real life. My experiences with these divers, in face to face encounters surpasses my virtual experiences simply by virtue of being materially real.

So, if anyone feels defensive of their DIR community or upset that they feel my comments were intended at them - they aren't. Unless you happen to live near me and spend your life insulting other divers, in which case, it's aimed directly at you.

But back to the comment to which I was responding -- there are enough bad apples in that particular barrel to taint the public perception badly -- largely because they do tend to be the vocal and visible members of that group when in the public eye. At least in my experience in my little neck of the woods.

*shrug*

That said - yes I have read DIR material, and I do think they have some very good ideas. Though I continue to gladly do it wrong since that works for me

 

[ScubaSam]

No doubt that's true. Around me, it appears to be more or less the entire group. I'm not saying that every DIR person is a total waste. There's lots of people here I respect for both their knowledge and for the way the conduct themselves on this board who I know are part of the GUE / DIR world.

But the comment was made about where the reputation comes from - and I answered it. There are people out there who are the polar opposite of TSandM and other's around here. And they are the representative sample of my local DIR community.

And honestly, I tend to judge and comment on people I've actually met in real life. My experiences with these divers, in face to face encounters surpasses my virtual experiences simply by virtue of being materially real.

So, if anyone feels defensive of their DIR community or upset that they feel my comments were intended at them - they aren't. Unless you happen to live near me and spend your life insulting other divers, in which case, it's aimed directly at you.

But back to the comment to which I was responding -- there are enough bad apples in that particular barrel to taint the public perception badly -- largely because they do tend to be the vocal and visible members of that group when in the public eye. At least in my experience in my little neck of the woods.

*shrug*

That said - yes I have read DIR material, and I do think they have some very good ideas. Though I continue to gladly do it wrong since that works for me

As I previously stated, GUE is not the only agency to teach DIR, but one of the first ones (if not the first one, someone will surely correct me, please, if I'm mistaken) to use cave diving techniques/gear configurations in open water recreational diving. It's unfortunate that you had personal encounters with those individuals but I can only speak about my positive experience with GUE and my class.

I believe it is the individual and not the agency. Personally, I'm not a fan of the term "DIR, Doing it Right" as it implies that everyone else is doing it wrong so it puts many off, and understandably so. We are all adults free to chose and this type of diving is clearly not for everyone.

 

[HenrikBP]

But back to the comment to which I was responding -- there are enough bad apples in that particular barrel to taint the public perception badly -- largely because they do tend to be the vocal and visible members of that group when in the public eye. At least in my experience in my little neck of the woods.

I can only say that I've had the exact opposite experience. I've met nothing but nice people willing to chat, help, explain without judgement - as long as I showed an interest in learning and improving.

Besides, GUE and other similar agencies seem to be working very hard to "distance" themselves from both the term DIR as well as the DIR zealots.

It is interesting though, how even in a generally "congratulatory" thread like this, some can't resist the urge to dig out the old grudges. Maybe it's time to let it go? I for one don't allow people I dislike to have that kind of power over me. Just a thought :shrug:

Whether "Right" or "Wrong" have fun and be safe in your diving.

Henrik