I do not agree with, "Dive and Let Dive."

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NorCalDM

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I see it as two different issues and the saying only applies to one. Diving dangerously and harming the environment are separate and for me the saying only applies to the first. Diving dangerously is subjective and each of us has a different risk tolerance so as long as you are not endangering someone else who am I to tell you no. As for the environment do you eat sea food and if so where did it come from? Is it ethically fished and sustainable or did it come from net that was dragged across the bottom taking everything in it's path? Do you have a fish tank and know where the fish came from and how they were caught. So before you go shake your finger in someone's face make sure your backyard is clean or you might just get it shoved back where it came from.
 

Outbound

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I see it as two different issues and the saying only applies to one. Diving dangerously and harming the environment are separate and for me the saying only applies to the first. Diving dangerously is subjective and each of us has a different risk tolerance so as long as you are not endangering someone else who am I to tell you no. As for the environment do you eat sea food and if so where did it come from? Is it ethically fished and sustainable or did it come from net that was dragged across the bottom taking everything in it's path? Do you have a fish tank and know where the fish came from and how they were caught. So before you go shake your finger in someone's face make sure your backyard is clean or you might just get it shoved back where it came from.
So there's no difference between driving a hybrid, for example, and driving a gas-guzzling Power Wagon as an office commuter? By your definition, it would seem only a mountain ascetic who survives on air has any right to call out bad environmental practices.

Is it that hard to stay off of the coral? Is it that difficult to not poke wildlife? Does someone who eats fish have no right to admonish those who do these things? Every human action has an environmental impact of some sort. We can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
 

kaylee_ann

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If it's not affecting anyone/anything else but them, I'd keep my mouth shut except if they ask for my opinion. If that's not the case, I'd talk to them with a response that warrants the situation. But the thing is, you can try and try to get through to them, but you can't control them. However, they wouldn't be my dive buddy or a potential one. Sometimes, all you can do is manage your choices, not another person's.
 

lowviz

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As a diving community, we do NOT want people diving dangerously, or in a way that is harmful to the environment. That kind of diving is NOT acceptable! Sure, the diver who is choosing to dive (for example) solo, or in a buddy pair but refusing to have an alternate 2nd stage, or not mindful of NDLs or their SPG, or deeper than their MOD....
My objection to the OP who speaks for the entire dive community is that there is clearly a strong bias against all solo diving.

I find that there is nothing more interesting and non-interactive than solo out-flow drifting across a back bay's muddy bottom while observing the amazing life below me.
 

Outbound

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My objection to the OP who speaks for the entire dive community is that there is clearly a strong bias against all solo diving.

I find that there is nothing more interesting and non-interactive than solo out-flow drifting across a back bay's muddy bottom while observing the amazing life below me.
I took his statement to mean those who are not solo certified but choose to go off on their own and not dive with their buddy. But I'll let @tursiops clarify.
 

BRT

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As long as you are not harming the environment, infringing on others rights, or placing ANYONE else in harms way (including potential rescuers) as a result of your actions.......then I say Dive and Let Dive.
Anytime we dive we are potentially placing others in harms way if things go sideways.
 

lowviz

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I took his statement to mean those who are not solo certified but choose to go off on their own and not dive with their buddy. But I'll let @tursiops clarify.
I'm not solo certified. I'm 72 y/o (still alive) and only shore dive alone and all by myself. Who do I show a solo cert to?
 

lowwall

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As for safety, my "Dive and let dive" response only kicks in after I've warned said person and they still refuse to listen. For example, on one week-long dive trip I was buddied in a three-man where one guy constantly went off and did his own thing, more or less ignoring us. And he was not a very competent diver: air hog, bad buoyancy, probably horrible navigation skills, and certainly a general lack of awareness of his surroundings. Topside after the first dive I nicely suggested that he stick closer to us. He said okay. Next dive: exactly the same thing. I again reminded him that if he got into trouble he was usually too far away from us for his two buddies to be of much help. Again, same type of diving. Since this wasn't a person I knew or had an existing friendship with, I just said screw it. I could either ruin my dive trip chasing this yahoo around in case he got into trouble, or I could just dive with my other buddy and hope that the yahoo kept up. I chose the latter.

Now, I might be a giant a-hole for doing that, but in the end I feel I have no responsibility to go out of my way to assist idiots. I dive for enjoyment and recreation, not to be a babysitter. That doesn't mean I'm going to casually let someone drown. But it does mean I'm not going to ruin my experience because someone else is too stubborn or selfish to accept that their actions and behavior might be impinging on someone else's enjoyment.

I'll give you one or two nice warnings. The third time will be an "I told you so."
I'd talk to the DM in this situation (or whoever represents the dive op if there's no DM). By agreeing to continue diving as a nominal buddy to this person, it could easily be argued that you do have a responsibility towards them. I'd rather nip this sort of thing in the bud rather than deal with the results if something goes wrong.

The couple of times I've had to talk to a DM about someone's dangerous actions underwater, they have handled it appropriately without any more interaction from me.
 

Marie13

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If it's not affecting anyone/anything else but them, I'd keep my mouth shut except if they ask for my opinion. If that's not the case, I'd talk to them with a response that warrants the situation. But the thing is, you can try and try to get through to them, but you can't control them. However, they wouldn't be my dive buddy or a potential one. Sometimes, all you can do is manage your choices, not another person's.
I see plenty of students walking into the water at the local quarry looking an absolute cluster. Second stages and console all hanging down their back. Often tanks are very loose in camband and slipping. I don’t say a word. I just sit back and laugh to myself at the mess. If instructors can’t be bothered to make sure their students are squared away before they get in the water, the instructors get to be the ones to deal with the issues.

I don’t say thing now. I used to if I saw a tank slipping, but not now. I’ve gotten too much attitude back.

The people watching at the Midwest quarries is excellent. Maybe only airports are better.
 

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