I did it

[JamesK]

Originally posted by roakey

Huh? His question was about GUE, excuse me, GOOEY training "chain smoking fatties." I told him to call GUE and ask. I don't know where EE entered into it, but yes, they're at the same location.

I even gave him the phone number to make it easy.

Roak

That is my fault then. I thought you were responding to this comment. Sorry for the assumption.

Funny that you mention PADDEY or however it is spelled. If you, in your infinite wisdom and mastery of diving, call Extreme Exposure (the Ultimate DIR shop) and ask for an Open Water class, guess what agency you get certified through.

I would like to comment on that long post of yours. You say that people who are not DIR believe in nothing. That could not be farther from the truth. They believe that their is more then one way to do things correctly, and safely. They believe that you do not have to mimmick every move made by one person, simply because they say it is right.

Your comment about leading a horse to water, but not making him think is a good one. One might also say, that you can lead a horse to water, then make him drink the kool-aid.

You comment about the insults, but you have thrown some out yourself. What have they accomplished? Nothing.

I am niether DIR, or anti-DIR. I believe the DIR system to be a very effective system, and incorporate almost all of its gear configurations into my diving. However, I do not believe it is the be all end all of diving.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I am not anti DIR or GUE. I am anti thinking DIR and GUE know everything and everyone else knows nothing. That being said I think I (even though I don't dive Wakula and have never been bent experimenting with leading edge deco theories) contribute plenty, believe and stand for plenty. One of the interesting points in the whole thing is that some really great divers seem to be anti DIR. They in fact do not differ from DIR very much in philosophy or their wish to see diving done safely, but they are not members of the club. They contribute bigtime. Do the originators of the term DIR perpetuate the insulting aura or is it just the DIR talkers? I don't know. But... fact....there have been many contributors and greats that never recieved their DIR knighthood.

 

[Divesherpa]

It's nice to see someone so against everyone that isn't exactly like them.
Roakey, your cave diving mastery is unlimited and you are the ultimate diver. Your methods are flawless and everyone who differs exactly from you is a blatant safety hazard.
Why aren't you a little nicer of a guy?

 

[Divesherpa]

Peace and safe diving be to you, Roak

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by Big James
You say that people who are not DIR believe in nothing.

Careful James, I've insulted enough people without widening the swath. I said ANTI-DIR people believe in nothing. People who are not DIR cover a whole spectrum, and I carefully worded my statement not to include them.

Originally posted by Big James
They believe that their is more then one way to do things correctly, and safely.

Please note that anti-DIR folks accuse DIR folks of saying many things they don't. And sooner or later most folks think that DIR folks actually said stuff they didn’t, it’s what the anti folks say that they said (did that make sense?). DIR folks do NOT say “You'll die without a DIR setup” or “recreational equipment will kill you.” Though we get accused of saying it so much that people actually think we say it.

We need go no further than your misquote of “You say that people who are not DIR believe in nothing” to see a mild example of this.

So, for the record: Recreational equipment is not dangerous. Bungee wings will not kill you outright. DIR is safer, but that does not make standard recreational gear unsafe. A five-point harness in your car would be safer, but the standard three point is adequate. You would be safer in a five point, though. Good analogy for DIR is a five-point harness.

Originally posted by Big James
They believe that you do not have to mimmick every move made by one person, simply because they say it is right.

None of true DIR is mimicry, everything has a reason. If I ask what 3+3 is everyone will say “6” (base 7 on up for you computer weenies ). That’s not mimicry, that’s a result of a common set of rules and rational thought. Same with DIR. Which wrist do you wear your compass on? The one that you don’t hold the scooter with so the motor magnets don’t interfere with it. Don’t scooter? Might as well put it on the “right” wrist now so you don’t have to change in the future if and when you do. You bet it’s a nit, but if it helps with the endgame, so much the better.

NetDoc, in one of his many pokes at DIR a couple months ago said something along the lines of “If George said to jump on one foot before a dive, everyone would.” Typical hyperbole, because George doesn’t say anything that doesn’t make sense. His delivery may suck, but there’s information in there, and good information at that.

Take it or leave it, but at least consider it. If you get huffy over his delivery and ignore the message, it’s your loss, sorry, I can’t change George.

Originally posted by Big James
Your comment about leading a horse to water, but not making him think is a good one. One might also say, that you can lead a horse to water, then make him drink the kool-aid.

Ah the cult reference. Not cute, not original, not funny. Typical though.

Originally posted by Big James
You comment about the insults, but you have thrown some out yourself. What have they accomplished? Nothing.

This is where folks like Lost Yooper and others are a better men than I. After answering the same questions for literally years, hearing the same insults for years, receiving the same pokes for years (I think this is about the third time I’ve seen a kool-aid reference) sometimes I lose it.

I can’t imagine what it’s like for George, who’s been doing this for years longer than I have. Does it excuse either George’s or my behavior? No, but it does explain it.

Take a look at what happened in this particular case (please refer back to verify what I’m saying is accurate). Someone asked about instructors. I posted a pretty bland pointer to the GUE web page and made a positive comment about two of their instructors. Next thing I know I’ve got people hammering about GOOEY and how they’re considering NSS-CDS because they’re “pretty free of egos.” And somehow the resulting flurry of debate is my fault. Yhea, right. Sorry I didn't roll over and play dead at that point.

Originally posted by Big James
I am neither DIR, or anti-DIR. I believe the DIR system to be a very effective system, and incorporate almost all of its gear configurations into my diving. However, I do not believe it is the be all end all of diving.

Any step towards DIR is a step in the right direction. That makes you a DIR success story weather you like it or not.

Roak

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
I am not anti DIR or GUE. I am anti thinking DIR and GUE know everything and everyone else knows nothing.

And when did I or GUE or anyone say that GUE knows everything and everyone else knows nothing? Never. If you've got a rational debate, let's have it, don't put words in GUE's mouth that were never said.

I addressed this in the previous reply. The anti-DIR folks lie about the DIR position so much that eventually they start believing that we actually said it.

For the time being I'll assume that you've been misinformed about the GUE position, rather than lying about it.

Roak

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by Divesherpa
It's nice to see someone so against everyone that isn't exactly like them.
Roakey, your cave diving mastery is unlimited and you are the ultimate diver. Your methods are flawless and everyone who differs exactly from you is a blatant safety hazard.
Why aren't you a little nicer of a guy?

I never said anyone who differs from me is a blatant safety hazard.

Anyone out there see the trend I've been trying to point out?

All I’m reduced to saying over and over is “I/We didn't say that.” I can't hold any kind of rational debate because all I'm reduced to doing is pointing out over and over that what you claim we're saying isn't what we're saying at all.

Congratulations, you have me on the defensive. Me, I’d rather spend my time showing folks how to make dives easier, safer and more fun. I guess we have different goals. Yours seems to be simply slamming DIR.

As I’ve stated elsewhere, make no doubt about it, I’m a weenie caver. The question was about cave instructors, what does my level of ability have to do with recommending cave instructors? Oh, that’s right, you used that as a springboard for your GOOEY slam, so it has nothing to do with helping someone choose an instructor and everything to do with vilifying DIR, my mistake.

You called GUE about your accusation yet?

Roak

 

[Divesherpa]

It's on my way home. I'll stop by after I'm done teaching to fill for the evening dive.

 

[MikeFerrara]

roakey,
You asked

And when did I or GUE or anyone say that GUE knows everything and everyone else knows nothing? Never. If you've got a rational debate, let's have it, don't put words in GUE's mouth that were never said.

It seems infered. By whom? I asked that question. You only addressed part of the post. Some DIR divers or maybe DIR wanabes' certainly infer it. But I didn't say you did. And I'm not lying. I said I was aposes to that line of thinking and I am.

 

[The Chairman]

Originally posted by roakey
Versus who? Your insult to GUE was transparent, Pete. I just called you on it. Roak

So, no matter what I say, I am slamming GUE??? If I comment on another agency I am slamming GUE??? How insecure you must be. But when you actively slam me, you are "OK" with this? For once, try and not hide behind the sham and realize that you call them "Wings of Death" and then say that you don't condemn other gear. You talk of facts and logic and spread only insults and fear. You are the epitomy of what you accuse others of doing.

Yeah, I do believe that if George were to say hop on one foot, many would find a way of justifying his request and slamming those of us not found hopping. If that makes me anti-DIR in your eyes, then so be it. You can take your little tirades and talk out both sides of your mouth till you feel good about yourself again. I ain't buying it. Here is yet another thread I will remove myself from so I don't have to deal with this crap anymore.