I have my first official dive this weekend in less than perfect weather and seas although underwater was great! I am supposed to have a reg (SCUBA Pro MK16 and R380) that no matter the pressure in tank, delivers air consistently and even has VIVA, however, I felt that as I started to use air under 1000 psi I felt it and of course at 1000 I am ready to get back to shore shore being an air sucking newbie. Then on surfacing, I am not sure if it was the comotion of the waves and inclement weather but I was in a state of hyperventilation. Granted, this could be a result of nerves but I really feel that perhaps it was a result of having to pull breath from the reg. Any experience regarding this? I hate to be the classic "blame the equipment" type, but I am curious to know if it could be related...
Hyperventilating
- Thread starter shellbird
- Start date
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Have the regulator checked, by all means! The increased drag of a malfunctioning regulator (negative pressure) increases the work of respiration and can cause an increase in the blowoff of CO2.
This form of hyperventilation can cause a lowered CO2 which causes a decrease in the serum calcium level - which can cause tingling in the skin and contraction of the muscles. This can then lead to a 'panicky' feeling requiring you to head for the surface - often too rapidly with disastrous results.
This should not be compared to the hyperventilation that some use to prolong a breath hold dive - which can lead to shallow water blackout or dilutional hypoxia.
If your equipment passes muster - then you need to sit down with your instructor and go over your techniques again and again until you feel more comfortable in the water.
Good things!
scubadoc
Diving Medicine Online
http://scuba-doc.com/
This form of hyperventilation can cause a lowered CO2 which causes a decrease in the serum calcium level - which can cause tingling in the skin and contraction of the muscles. This can then lead to a 'panicky' feeling requiring you to head for the surface - often too rapidly with disastrous results.
This should not be compared to the hyperventilation that some use to prolong a breath hold dive - which can lead to shallow water blackout or dilutional hypoxia.
If your equipment passes muster - then you need to sit down with your instructor and go over your techniques again and again until you feel more comfortable in the water.
Good things!
scubadoc
Diving Medicine Online
http://scuba-doc.com/
art.chick
Contributor
Wow, Scubadoc, that was an awesome explanation!
Shellbird,
I wonder if you were not (at least in part) reacting to the surge. Lots of people get nausea or just plain anxiety from the motion. Does your instructor not approve of you using a snorkel immediately upon surfacing? That's what I do. (Also before descending.) If you did not experience hard-breathing under the water, and you were not running out of air, it may be that your fear is causing you to suck on that diaphram way harder than it's meant to be sucked. The snorkel won't give you the same guff.
PS: I once had an instructor who taught "Enya therapy" by giving us a CD of Enya's to listen to every night as we fel asleep. She told up to play it in our heads when the water's motion intimidated us. It has helped me relax when everyone else is hyperventilating & stiffening up.
Shellbird,
I wonder if you were not (at least in part) reacting to the surge. Lots of people get nausea or just plain anxiety from the motion. Does your instructor not approve of you using a snorkel immediately upon surfacing? That's what I do. (Also before descending.) If you did not experience hard-breathing under the water, and you were not running out of air, it may be that your fear is causing you to suck on that diaphram way harder than it's meant to be sucked. The snorkel won't give you the same guff.
PS: I once had an instructor who taught "Enya therapy" by giving us a CD of Enya's to listen to every night as we fel asleep. She told up to play it in our heads when the water's motion intimidated us. It has helped me relax when everyone else is hyperventilating & stiffening up.
DennisW
Contributor
Shellbird,
I agree with Scubadoc, check your regulator out, however, I would bet you had a mild panic attack and just need to calm down. I had a similar experience during a low vizibility dive a few years ago. I had not been diving regularly and went on a low viz dive with Walter from this board and my daughter at Venice Beach, FL looking for fossilized sharks teeth. This is a shore entry and a long swim. My daughter and my brother were connected via a buddy line, the plan was that I would follow as best as I could and if I got separated, surface, find the flag and follow the line down to them (the depth is a max of about 18 ft). This happened two or three times and I was a little underweighted for my full wet suit (it was December). Each time I followed the line down I had to really fight to get down. Of course, I was exerting myself and breathing hard, making it even harder to descend. On the third time down the flag line, I began to hyperventilate. I tried to stay on the bottom and calm down, but again lost sight of the other two divers. I surfaced and stayed near the flag, but decided to call my dive. When Walter surfaced to check on me, I told him I was heading back to shore, but they should continue the dive. On the slow kick back to shore from about 200 yards or more out from the beach, I had time to analyze what had happened and I basically had a panic attack. Never happened before and it made me feel very uncomfortable. The next few dives I made made me a little uneasy, because I was concerned that I may get this panicky feeling again. Well, my nervousness was all that happened and I am completely comfortable in the water as always, but I learned a very valuable lesson. Anyone, that means ANYONE, can get panicked and how you handle it is the key. Always keep thinking and you should be ok, keep yourself calm, conciously slow your breathing. Do this while you are at depth and handle the problem there if at all possible.
Anyone else have any suggestions that can help?
I agree with Scubadoc, check your regulator out, however, I would bet you had a mild panic attack and just need to calm down. I had a similar experience during a low vizibility dive a few years ago. I had not been diving regularly and went on a low viz dive with Walter from this board and my daughter at Venice Beach, FL looking for fossilized sharks teeth. This is a shore entry and a long swim. My daughter and my brother were connected via a buddy line, the plan was that I would follow as best as I could and if I got separated, surface, find the flag and follow the line down to them (the depth is a max of about 18 ft). This happened two or three times and I was a little underweighted for my full wet suit (it was December). Each time I followed the line down I had to really fight to get down. Of course, I was exerting myself and breathing hard, making it even harder to descend. On the third time down the flag line, I began to hyperventilate. I tried to stay on the bottom and calm down, but again lost sight of the other two divers. I surfaced and stayed near the flag, but decided to call my dive. When Walter surfaced to check on me, I told him I was heading back to shore, but they should continue the dive. On the slow kick back to shore from about 200 yards or more out from the beach, I had time to analyze what had happened and I basically had a panic attack. Never happened before and it made me feel very uncomfortable. The next few dives I made made me a little uneasy, because I was concerned that I may get this panicky feeling again. Well, my nervousness was all that happened and I am completely comfortable in the water as always, but I learned a very valuable lesson. Anyone, that means ANYONE, can get panicked and how you handle it is the key. Always keep thinking and you should be ok, keep yourself calm, conciously slow your breathing. Do this while you are at depth and handle the problem there if at all possible.
Anyone else have any suggestions that can help?
Scuba Barbie
Guest
Thanks for sharing this experience, Dennis.
The Enya therapy sounds helpful as well, although, I think I will switch it to Dave Mathews therapy.
The Enya therapy sounds helpful as well, although, I think I will switch it to Dave Mathews therapy.
I did bring my reg in just as a precaution, part of me says that there is a chance it played a role, however, I would agree that panic is probably the culprit ;-0
Upon surfacing I couldn't wait to hit the snorkel, which I did but I guess I had already started the hyperventilation and it didn't seem to help and it was topsy turvy out there and the reg was the more comfortable option in the end. I just got on my back and relaxed while my valiant buddies (MSilvia and Funky_monk) rescued me. The free ride to shore was great, luckily for them it wasn't too far.
Although embarassing, I am learning!
art.chick, part of my concern for the reg malfunctioning is my LDS told me I could suck that tank dry before I would notice any change in the air delivery so when I felt I was really pulling breath and being the first time using the reg (brand new) I took notice... We will see what the LDS comes up with upon their inspection, although I wonder if they will tell me the truth as they built it for me.
Upon surfacing I couldn't wait to hit the snorkel, which I did but I guess I had already started the hyperventilation and it didn't seem to help and it was topsy turvy out there and the reg was the more comfortable option in the end. I just got on my back and relaxed while my valiant buddies (MSilvia and Funky_monk) rescued me. The free ride to shore was great, luckily for them it wasn't too far.
Although embarassing, I am learning!
art.chick, part of my concern for the reg malfunctioning is my LDS told me I could suck that tank dry before I would notice any change in the air delivery so when I felt I was really pulling breath and being the first time using the reg (brand new) I took notice... We will see what the LDS comes up with upon their inspection, although I wonder if they will tell me the truth as they built it for me.
VTWarrenG
Guest
shellbird,
All regulators are virtually the same.
Some background: Regulators have an intermediate chamber in the first stage, which is connected to the tank's airspace via a valve. The chamber is kept at approximately 150 psi above ambient water pressure. When air leaves the chamber, a piston or diaphragm moves, opens the inlet valve, and allows air to flow from the tank into the chamber. The length of time it takes this chamber to "refill" to ambient + 150 psi is determined by the ratio of pressure in the tank to the pressure in the chamber. In essence, it takes this chamber longer to refill when the tank is at a lower pressure.
The intermediate chamber is connected to your second stage regulator by a hose. The intermediate chamber and hose, therefore, both hold air at about 150 psi above ambient.
Now for the relevant part. When you inhale, your second stage is regulating that 150 psi down to ambient water pressure through a demand valve. The air that you're taking into your lungs is actually present in the hose and intermediate chamber (NOT in the tank) before your breath. Very little of your inspired air comes directly from the tank. As your inhalation progresses, the pressure drop is communicated back up the hose, and into the intermediate chamber, which then begins to refill.
In short, the intermediate chamber refills almost independently of your breath -- it doesn't matter how long it takes to refill, so long as it's full by the time you're ready to inhale again.
What all this means is that virtually ALL regulators will breathe equivalently at all tank pressures. Only very poor designs with very small intermediate chambers, very low-flow HP inlet valves, or very poor airflow designs will show any significant difference in effort of breathing at low and high tank pressures.
- Warren
All regulators are virtually the same.
Some background: Regulators have an intermediate chamber in the first stage, which is connected to the tank's airspace via a valve. The chamber is kept at approximately 150 psi above ambient water pressure. When air leaves the chamber, a piston or diaphragm moves, opens the inlet valve, and allows air to flow from the tank into the chamber. The length of time it takes this chamber to "refill" to ambient + 150 psi is determined by the ratio of pressure in the tank to the pressure in the chamber. In essence, it takes this chamber longer to refill when the tank is at a lower pressure.
The intermediate chamber is connected to your second stage regulator by a hose. The intermediate chamber and hose, therefore, both hold air at about 150 psi above ambient.
Now for the relevant part. When you inhale, your second stage is regulating that 150 psi down to ambient water pressure through a demand valve. The air that you're taking into your lungs is actually present in the hose and intermediate chamber (NOT in the tank) before your breath. Very little of your inspired air comes directly from the tank. As your inhalation progresses, the pressure drop is communicated back up the hose, and into the intermediate chamber, which then begins to refill.
In short, the intermediate chamber refills almost independently of your breath -- it doesn't matter how long it takes to refill, so long as it's full by the time you're ready to inhale again.
What all this means is that virtually ALL regulators will breathe equivalently at all tank pressures. Only very poor designs with very small intermediate chambers, very low-flow HP inlet valves, or very poor airflow designs will show any significant difference in effort of breathing at low and high tank pressures.
- Warren
...Built it?
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