How would you teach a 10yr old to use dive tables?

[Coldwater_Canuck]

It's odd that parents let their kids play baseball, football or soccer knowing that they WILL get injured but they shun the idea of diving because they MIGHT get hurt. Same with go-karts, dirt bikes and off-highway vehicles. New poll: how many around here allow their kids to ride dirt bikes?

We have a smorgasbord of opportunities for kids to get hurt. Diving isn't unique in this regard, but the risks are manageable.

That's exactly the issue: no one really knows if the risks are manageable. With baseball and everything, the risks are well understood and an informed decision can be made. Diving has risks for anyone, but for adults these risks are for the most part understood. Diving will always have risks, like the other activities you list, but they can't be managed when they aren't understood. But this also isn't some phantom "what if" I'm talking about, there are many valid reasons that suggest diving may be very problematic.

For those who don't want their kids to dive until later: no problem. But it is worth noting that not all parents feel that way. That doesn't make them bad parents.

Of course not, I don't think people are bad parents for letting their kids dive. But that's why I say the agencies need to set an appropriate minimum age. I'll go back to driving: when a child turns 16, it's still up to the parent if they are allowed to drive or not; but that is the level they are being told it is relatively safe to get on the road.

The decision when it is relatively safe to dive is not one that should be left to the parents, because 99% of people are in no position to be making this call. Even if experts don't know exactly what happens to kids underwater, they at least understand the science a lot better to have some idea. Whether or not to let their kids do it should be the parents call, but safety is largely something they know too little about.

My point is I seriously hope that the agencies saying 10 is an appropriate age to dive are basing this on science and not dollar signs. Maybe the few experts against children diving are just paranoid nutcases, I don't know. I guess I just don't trust agencies when there is money involved.

I think you are overlooking the restrictions placed on Junior Open Water divers. Not only are they limited to 40' but they can only dive with a certified parent/guardian or a Dive Master/Instructor. They can not go diving with the kid down the street.

In other words, someone is holding their hand and guiding their experiences for the next 5 years.

Richard

Okay I wasn't aware of that, that's definately good to know. I realized that it would be unlikely two ten year olds would go diving together, but didn't know it was actually a restriction. Good to hear.

 

[Dr Neil]

Quote:
My arguement with all of the arrogant instructors out there is that you are not taught teaching methods. I have sat through the most monotone instructors who do not have skills to "teach" and on the other hand my instructor back in '90 was animated and interesting- but that was semester long class.

I was curious if anyone had any great teaching techniques out there - but obviously - there are as few as I thought there were.



You have just hit the nail on the head.... being an instructor does not equate to being a teacher. Presenting the material to students and teaching the material are two totally different skills. I realize that the dive agencies have idiot proofed their curriculums, but read the chapter, watch the video, and take the test just doesn't cut it.

With kids it's even more critical. The vast majority of kids spend 6+ hours a day in class. A very small number of those students are subjected to canned teaching.

Kids need to be handled differently in diving classes and most of what works well with kids works well with adults! The arrogant instructor can get away with crappy teaching with adults, but it doesn't work with kids. Of couse, that same arrogant instructor would lay the blame at the feet fo the kid.

 

[seaducer]

For those who don't want their kids to dive until later: no problem. But it is worth noting that not all parents feel that way. That doesn't make them bad parents.

This is true. And I am not saying someone who allows their 10YO to get certified and then takes them diving is a bad parent.

But I also think that perhaps many parents who do allow their young children to dive may not even be aware that there is a concern beyond the typical things covered in OW class. For example there is a suggestion that allowing pre-pubescent children to dive can have a negative effect on bone growth.

Here are a few good pages for those interested:
Age and Diving and Doc Vikingo"s Children and Diving

I am not a doctor so I can't say whether this is safe or not. I am just putting the information out there so parents can make an informed decision.

 

[rstofer]

It's always fun to cherry-pick the data. From Doc Vikingo's Children & Diving

However, while there may be no formal studies of the effect of diving on children, PADI and European-based CMAS have long offered swimming pool scuba to children as young as age 4, and restricted open water certification for those to age 8. To date, the results cause no alarm. Even allowing for the extent to which good PR may influence disclosure of adverse events, if children were sustaining harm in significant numbers, liability issues would presumably force this information into the open.

One thing that is discussed is the idea of keeping the depth shallow. That has been my position from the beginning. Dive to 20-30', stay well short of NDL (further limited by a small tank) and stay very close together.

Richard

 

[NudeDiver]

How would you break down dive tables to those not that well versed in math..

The dive tables I've seen have the instructions printed right on them. The tables and "the math" are just not very complicated. In my view, if someone can't figure it out for themselves simply by following those instructions, then maybe they shouldn't be diving, regardless of their age.