How would my air consumption change on double 50s vs 85s?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

CaveSloth

Contributor
Messages
602
Reaction score
212
Location
The Deep South
# of dives
50 - 99
I currently dive back double LP85s. A shop guy told me yesterday I would be shocked by how much my air consumption would decrease if I switched to double LP50s. He said that the streamlining of 50s is so much better that I would move effortlessly through the water and therefore consume much less air. I don't have a set to try this experiment on but is he correct? An 85 has about 70% more air than a 50 at the same pressure. How much more time would I get out of 85s vs 50s (if any)? I assume based on his comments the additional time would be much less than 70%?
 
I currently dive back double LP85s. A shop guy told me yesterday I would be shocked by how much my air consumption would decrease if I switched to double LP50s. He said that the streamlining of 50s is so much better that I would move effortlessly through the water and therefore consume much less air. I don't have a set to try this experiment on but is he correct? An 85 has about 70% more air than a 50 at the same pressure. How much more time would I get out of 85s vs 50s (if any)? I assume based on his comments the additional time would be much less than 70%?
What is your RMV with the 85s?
 
I don’t know how much it would change, but I would make two observations that you can take with a grain of salt

First air consumption is based on many things besides being streamlined. If you follow the “smaller is better line of thinking we would all be diving double 40s. Slowing down as you dive will make more difference in your RMV as you will be working less hard.
Secondly, most technical divers that I know including myself tend to lean toward “more gas is better “ way of thinking. More gas = more time and more time will help you get out of issues compared to less time.
Be safe
 
I seriously doubt it will make much of a difference and you'll have significantly less gas with LP50s compared to LP85s. Diameter of a LP50 is 5.5 inches vs 7 inches for an LP85, so with doubles you're looking at 3 inch diameter difference. While that is a difference, a lot of your drag comes from pushing your body and other gear through the water which will not change.
 
I currently dive back double LP85s. A shop guy told me yesterday I would be shocked by how much my air consumption would decrease if I switched to double LP50s. He said that the streamlining of 50s is so much better that I would move effortlessly through the water and therefore consume much less air. I don't have a set to try this experiment on but is he correct? An 85 has about 70% more air than a 50 at the same pressure. How much more time would I get out of 85s vs 50s (if any)? I assume based on his comments the additional time would be much less than 70%?

in cave diving which is where this really matters, the difference in gas size and penetration distance is not linear. As you said, an 85 has 70% more gas than a 50, so if you can get 1000ft on a set of 50's, you'd think you would be able to get to 1700ft on a set of 85's. In reality, you'll probably only get to 1500ft or so. Numbers completely made up, but it's close enough. It's far enough away from linear to matter, but enough of an improvement to be worthwhile. Same concept applies with stages.
I disagree with the argument about being streamlined since bottles are round and the drag profile between a bottle with a 5.5" diameter and a 7" diameter at the speeds that we move is functionally irrelevant. Someone like @victorzamora is qualified to actually speak on that since that's what he does for a living, but as slow as we move, if the only difference is a set of double 50's vs a set of double 85's, then the difference in drag profile is practically irrelevant. Even less so if you are sidemounting.
What does matter though is mass. The 85's are ~65% heavier than 50's with a total increase of roughly 30lbs when full. It takes a lot more effort to get that mass moving. This can be proven if you log the mpg's in your car. If you log with just you driving, then log with the car fully loaded with people/stuff, you'll see a change in fuel economy. Same applies to diving.
 
I think the only way to determine that without getting super math nerdy, and making so many assumptions on variables that the math is mostly worthless, would be to try a pair out and find out. I would be surprised if you even broke even with the difference though. Add in an air share situation and it wouldn't make sense at all. Gas matching for a cave? I hope you only dive with Renee Power or Jill Heinerth with their .00013 RMV under stress.

I will say there is some precedent for what the shop guy says though. I can do longer dives with an AL80 than I can with an HP 100, if I am diving in a 3mm wetsuit. I spend so much effort trying to keep the 100 from turtling me that my RMV increases enough to overtake the gas volume difference. I just don't need the weight of the 100, so I'm fighting it the whole time. Put me in a drysuit and I'll take the 100 every time though.

And diving with a pair of side mounted 50's feels like freediving... but I wouldn't do any deco with them.
 
Did the shop guy also happen to have a set of double 50’s for sell? :)

I own and dive both. I don’t see a meaningful difference in my RMV. I personally like the double 50’s in place of a large 8-inch single cylinder, but not for RMV purposes. I like the balance and weight distribution. I use my double 50s on the same dive types as my single cylinders. My LP85s are the smallest set I use for planned deco dives.
 
What is your RMV with the 85s?
A shop guy told me yesterday I would be shocked by how much my air consumption would decrease if I switched to double LP50s. He said that the streamlining of 50s is so much better that I would move effortlessly through the water and therefore consume much less air. I don't have a set to try this experiment on but is he correct?


Can you just rent a set of LP 50s and test it out?
 
If you're talking about for cave diving specifically, remember you don't see most people diving 50s in the cave so you will be your buddy's limiting factor when you gas match. I remember when I got my rebreather I was excited to get to dive 50s. They're nice and small and really comfortable sidemounted. Then I got into my rb class and cave crossover and realized how limited my penetration distances are even on the rebreather with 50s. The opposite side of the coin though is that the 50s are so nice and small they make carrying stages even nicer, so if I want to go fartther in a cave than my 50s would take me on the rebreather, adding a stage or two is actually sometimes more comfortable than sidemounting 85s or 108s.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

Back
Top Bottom