How women measure up as divers compared to men

[Gilldiver]

Over the years I have had the pleasure and privilege of diving with some extremely supperior women divers. I have also had to dive with some guys who were pure cluster f%^&*@.

I'll take some of these women as dive buddies over any guy any day: Welcome to the Women Divers Hall of Fame

 

[Danielle's_Dives]

As for purpose, my initial question is "Who cares?" Why does it matter if the entire mass of female divers may tend to have characteristics that may or may not be marginally better or worse than the entire mass of male divers? That is an important question, because it suggests that for some reason the person proposing the study cares. That strongly suggests someone out to prove something, and someone out to prove something has the potential to bring a whole lot of bias into the study. That bias can play out in the entire study, from the original setup to data collecting techniques to observational bias. For example, the setup includes a determination of what characteristics make for a better diver and the degree to which each characteristic is ranked. If you want to see what I mean, start a thread in Basic Scuba and ask people to rank the most important characteristics of good divers and assign them ranking points. See what kind of consensus you get. Someone who subconsciously wants a study to turn out a certain way will, without intending to, select criteria skewed to make it turn out that way.

Thal gave an example of possible methodological problems, including observational bias. I cannot imagine how any study could be designed that could control for all factors through its methodology.

Some of you may remember the Hite Report on female sexuality. It made a big splash and is still referenced despite the fact that the methodology of the study was so poor that it is commonly used in college research classes as an example of how to get meaningless results.

I leave by repeating this thought: who cares? What difference can this possibly make one way or the other? If it matters to you, please explain why.

Well, I care or I wouldn't have read this post. It is not that it matters one way or the other, simply that opening someone's mind to change or improving one's self. Surely as a teacher, you would see this
This was a great topic to start that opened up thoughts from both sexes.
The reason why this post mattered to me and I took the time to click on it and read the 7 pages of posts was that my dive buddy is my husband 98% of the time. We learned together and dive together. Why would I not want to see if I could do something to make me a better dive or better dive buddy?
After reading the article features, it made me stop and reflect about my pros and cons and also my husband's.
My husband is a GEM. He is the gear guy. He is the master provider with the lobsters, he is the cleaning guy. He is better at buoyancy control at most times and wears less weight than me. He is however an air hog. When he is lobstering and expending energy he blows through even more air than I do.
I am a great swimmer and go through WAY less air than he does. But I suck at lobstering...still. I am however good at bringing a beer after a dive or making lunch. I am great at identifying my fish friends.
So, in the end I cared about this post enough to read it to see if I could do anything to better myself.
I leave you with this thought...
You have heard of Sir Isaac Newton I am sure being an educator. Well we all know about that story. Apple fell on his head and..
"Now came Newton's truly brilliant insight: if the force of gravity reaches to the top of the highest tree, might it not reach even further; in particular, might it not reach all the way to the orbit of the Moon! Then, the orbit of the Moon about the Earth could be a consequence of the gravitational force, because the acceleration due to gravity could change the velocity of the Moon in just such a way that it followed an orbit around the earth. "

This one article was the beginning of some higher thoughts and ideas that are now accepted in the scientific world. If he had not speculated and done some initial research, we may not have the knowledge we have now. Not all science makes sense, it all starts with a hypothesis. From wikipedia...
"In modern use, "science" more often refers to a way of pursuing knowledge, not only the knowledge itself"

So, to the post starter, thanks for starting. The views here opened my eyes to new things.

 

[Sheri SGR]

TRonin, come dive with me in SoCal. Vladamir I think you hit it right on with your assessment of female buddies, (in general) However, I have male buddies who are just as happy to amble along and see what we see and enjoy silence back on the boat.

 

[drbill]

oh, duck, of course a single study qualifies as science! There isn't any rule saying that research has to be replicated in order to be within the realm of science. Naturally, others may challenge the conclusions and attempt to refute them, including through replication of the research, and if a study is replicated with the same results, then the results are more convincing, but to say that a study that was conducted using scientific methodology is not science is simply fallacious. (I think you might be confusing the terms "science" and "fact." They are not synonymous.)

Agree since you added the condition that the study has to be replicable. That is a critical component of science... the ability for others to replicate an experiment and test their results against the original study.

As far as women go, I generally prefer diving with female buddies given many factors: air consumption, attention to relationships (buddy, ecological, etc.), more patient and less prone to move on prematurely and generally a higher interest in what's down under. Of course there are male divers who meet those qualifications, but they are often paired up with lady-go-divers already. Sniff!

 

[vladimir]

TRonin, come dive with me in SoCal. Vladamir I think you hit it right on with your assessment of female buddies, (in general) However, I have male buddies who are just as happy to amble along and see what we see and enjoy silence back on the boat.

Maybe we've dived together; I am more than happy to go slow and keep my mouth shut.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Even though I have been on SB for years, I just realized with this thread Q was a female, of well I am a little slow...

My pet theory is that there is an additional entry barrier to diving for women, specifically the gear. Its both heavy topside relative to their size and looks complex to a novice if one is not slanted towards mechanics / engineering. So a lot of women don't try or become dependent on have a "man" lead them in vacation dive mode. The result though it the women who persist and overcome this extra barrier are better divers due to the extra challenges they had to overcome.

 

[Clammy]

Men always, always, always have more gas; women always have more air!

More accurately, men always, always, always, always have more gas but women keep it in their tank!


In my experience (as limited or not as it may be), the WORST (mostly) divers I've ever seen in skill were women and the BEST (mostly) divers I've ever seen in skill were women.
I've seen more new women divers have trouble than new men divers.
I've rarely seen a woman take a stupid/macho risk.
I've seen more women on run away ascents than men.
I see men, including myself, wanting to hug the bottom more than women.
I see women prep and double check things more than men.
Women want to check out life more.
Men want to chase things more.

For me, I also agree that women make better buddies. Whether they are leading or following, they tend to stick with you more. No one goes off on their own like a bungee just to try to catch back up (I'm guilty of this). They communicate more openly and communicate their issues sooner before they start cascading. I dive with a lot of newbies because I have an open invitation to my friends that I'll go with them to dive so they have someone more experienced around while they get comfortable. Even the women newbies are preferable for me to dive with than men newbies because of those reasons. The best dives, in terms of buddy, I've ever had were with women who were more experienced than me or leading. Hands down, bar none.

The only drawback with diving with some women is that the smaller ones may need more help on land or get tired easier. I don't mind being a tank sherpa though so not a biggie. I'll take the workout! The "hard core" women divers don't need any help though.