How to tell the DM you're not a disaster underwater?

[Stoo]

I agree with this. It's also a bit disconcerting to have dived 14 years and never had that excrement hit the oscillator--well not to any serious degree. You get some experience and you think you could handle any situation without panicking. But you really don't know.

Well you know the old saying, "Experience is what you gain immediately after you really needed it"...

 

[oly5050user]

I'm going to try to frame this question without it sounding like a humblebrag, so bear with me.

I'm a new diver, certified just 9 months ago, but have packed 50 dives into those 9 months, the vast majority shore dives in the cold water of Monterey. I also did a one-on-one AOW course with a great local instructor - not because I needed the card or consider myself "advanced," but because I wanted to do some intensive additional training on buoyancy, propulsion, and navigation.

When I've traveled to warm-water locales and gone boat diving, I've found that the DMs often separate divers into groups based on experience. They usually do this based on some simple questions - how long have you been diving, and when was your last dive? Based on this, I usually get put with the "inexperienced" group.

The "inexperienced" groups tend to be mostly vacation divers who dive a few times a year, maybe they haven't been diving in over a year, they're using all rental gear, their trim and buoyancy are way off, and they suck down air.

For my first warm water dives, I thought it would be better to be with the inexperienced group, thinking of myself as "new." But pretty quickly I figured out that, in comparison to most of those divers:

• My buoyancy and trim is much better (as a cold water diver, I find it takes barely any effort to hover motionless in warm water and keep my hands still. Holding blue-water safety stops without a reference is no problem)
• I use less air (my RMV is around 0.5 cuft/min, not amazing, but on these dives, I'm often back on the boat with 1000+ PSI)
• My propulsion and control of my position in the water column is much better
• I'm comfortable navigating by compass in low-viz or low-light situations
• I'm diving all my own gear
• Above all, I'm calm, relaxed, and efficient

I'm not trying to brag here, and I recognize that I'm still a very new diver and have a ton to learn. I also recognize that there are conditions I am not experienced in, due to my local diving conditions (strong currents, drifts, negative entries, depths below 100ft, to name a few).

But I've repeatedly had the experience of finishing a dive and having the DM tell me "You don't look like a new diver - I wouldn't have guessed by watching you that you've been diving less than a year."

Bottom line: I'm a newbie, sure, but as a cold-water diver who dives frequently at home, I've found that on MOST warm-water boats, I'm a better fit paired with the more experienced group.

I've tried to gently communicate this to DM's by saying things like "I've only been diving 9 months, but I do a lot of cold water diving at home..." But I still always get put with the vacation divers who are crashing into the reef and suck down air like nobody's business.

Any advice on how to tactfully but effectively ask to be paired with more experienced divers in these situations, so that I can have longer dives and better buddies?

An experienced divemaster / instructor can tell who is capable and who is not as they walk on the dock to the boat and step foot onboard. How do they carry their gear ? When assemble gear, does it seem the diver does it effortlessly or has issues ? Does the diver stow their gear properly taking minimally deck space ? When handing out lead does the customer ask for a recommendation of how much they should use, this is something the diver should know and not need to ask someone. Is the diver apparently overweighting themselves? It raises a big red flag to me if someone with less than 100 dives and only diving 9 months asks to be paired with more experienced divers because they think they should, especially on their first dive with the operation.

 

[Kimela]

The BEST thing about diving with the more experienced group is not getting kicked or silted out by other divers. However, there have been times when I wish I'd had a shallow dive option because it felt like the only purpose of the deep dive was to say "we went to xxx ft!". Often it feels like the dive is a forced march with no time to 'stop and smell the roses'. There's so much to see on the shallow dives. Sometimes it's worth it to go shallow and maintain a healthy distance from other divers (except for your buddy, of course) so you can take a minute to watch an eel, wait out an octopus that the other dives frightened into its hidey hole, or settle in to take a picture of a nudibranch.

I didn't read all the posts but @anchochile, it sounds like you've got a great start! Enjoy the ride!

 

[stuartv]

It seems to me that all the advice about who to buddy up with, what to say to the DM on the boat, etc., misses a potentially significant point. Some operators have multiple boats and you will be assigned to "New vs Experienced" when they decide what boat to put you on. If you wait until you're on the boat and looking for a buddy, it may already be too late to dive with the "more experienced divers".

I think the best thing you can do is, when they ask you how long you've been diving (or whatever other questions they ask in that vein), just say "well, I've done 50-something dives just in the last 9 months." Leave out how long you've actually been certified unless they really drill you for that specific piece of information.

In my experience, whatever version of those questions they ask, they're really just trying to figure out if you have enough experience and if you have reasonably recent experience. Telling them you have done 50 dives in the last 9 months will usually cover all the bases. That will surely be a LOT compared to most of the other guests on the boat. The most likely way you'd get tripped up on that is if it's just someone filing out a form and they have specific questions on the form with answers they have to fill in.

Once you're on a boat, if they are dividing people up into groups, then the advice already given seems good to me. Having a private conversation, as early as you can, with the head dive guide seems like the best plan. If you can do that as soon as they start letting people board the boat, that is even better. Sometimes, they'll try to have people who are going to dive together setup their gear near each other, so getting that sorted while everyone is still loading in might help.

Worst case, if it's a charter for multiple dives, you have let them know. If they still put you in a group of newbies, they can watch you on the first dive and maybe switch you to a different group for the 2nd dive.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Good thoughts Stuart! The other thing he could do is identify the experienced divers, chat them up, tell them the 50 dives this year, looking for a buddy, etc. and see if he can fix himself up before the dm starts trying to divvy folks up.

 

[stuartv]

Good thoughts Stuart! The other thing he could do is identify the experienced divers, chat them up, tell them the 50 dives this year, looking for a buddy, etc. and see if he can fix himself up before the dm starts trying to divvy folks up.

I could see that sword cutting either way. He might get into the advanced group. Or he might cause his buddy to get relegated to the newbie group....

 

[AdivingBel]

IMHO "oversharing" about your diving experience once on the boat with a DM (unless you know him/her) is an inexperience trigger. Once on the boat, take care of your business and enjoy the company of others in a respectful, subdued fashion (don't act nervous or too excited ). If you need assistance or have questions of the DM, by all means ask. That's not the communication I'm referring to. Again, IMHO, the key is pre-trip/pre-dive planning. Search out situations/dive ops where you can do your own thing. Be prepared to be "checked out" on your first dive. You may not even know it's happening. If the site/locale you want to dive requires a "group" dive or you find yourself in that situation, then go with the flow, follow the ops rules, and enjoy your dive to the best of your ability. Being able to do that is a sign of experience as well. Good luck and have fun. All IMHO, YMMV.

 

[anchochile]

Hi, all. Thanks for the many thoughtful replies. After reading through everyone's comments, I think the crux of the issue is that I've only done one-off boat dives so far, rather than multiple days with the same op.

I agree with those who pointed out that requesting beforehand to be grouped with the more advanced divers would be a big red flag to many DMs. That's why I haven't done it so far - it makes me uncomfortable, and I'm a firm believer in "show, don't tell."

The fact that I've received positive comments from several DM's after the dives as far as how I look in the water (given the short period I've been diving) shows that y'all are right - they are paying attention. And presumably, also paying attention when I show up with my gear in order, set up my gear efficiently, and know exactly how much weight I need (zero, with my steel backplate).

On my next dive trips, I'll be diving multiple times with the same operators, so I will trust that they'll observing me on the first dive or two, and will make their own assessment about which group I belong with on subsequent dives. And I'll trust that assessment. If there's a tactful way to do so, maybe I'll ask at the end of the first trip whether they think it would be appropriate to put me with the experienced group on the next day. And of course I'll happily defer to their judgment.

Finally, for those pointing out that 50 dives in 9 months still makes me a beginner - I agree! I'm very conservative with in terms of the types of dives I choose to do, and very aware that my skills have not been tested in many types of challenging situations. To reiterate, my question was not about how to get the DM to let me do the "harder" dives (deeper, stronger current, etc). I just want to do the easy dives with the divers whose air consumption and buoyancy control more closely resemble mine.

 

[60plus]

I had a bit of a laugh when I saw the heading for this topic. I am a bit deaf (metal bashing industry work and a couple of ear infections). This can cause problems when signing on for a dive or having to say I am a bit deaf can you repeat the instructions. When filling in the pre dive forms I have to put reading glasses on and struggle to see in bright sunlight. Once I have my BCD on I have great difficulty putting my fins on and often ask someone else to help (my legs wont bend properly as a result of multiple breaks and 5 operations). Add to that I am a bit overweight and very big build and you can see DMs worrying at the thought of having to get me out of trouble. I am pretty certain some think "OMG I have a right one here" When I was first learning to dive the slightly built female instructor who did the theory and pool session got a larger male colleague to accompany me on my first sea dive in case she could not handle me if I got into difficulty. Fortunately once in the water my diving puts their mind at rest. Having see what goes on at various dive locations I think DMs have good reason to be suspicious of divers. There are very experienced divers who have had many years practice perfecting their poor techniques and learning bad habits whereas on the other hand there are inexperienced vacation divers who dive very well and do not spoil dives.

 

[markmud]

Bottom line: I'm a newbie, sure, but as a cold-water diver who dives frequently at home, I've found that on MOST warm-water boats, I'm a better fit paired with the more experienced group.

Hi anchochile,

I am sorry to inform you that the problem you are encountering is not going away. There are other recent threads by divers with hundreds of logged dives (approaching a 1,000) requesting advice that is similar, but different than your request. Same theme, different issue.

Last week we had a DM who has less than 100 total dives logged--he started with OW about a year ago. He and one other were the best DMs we had. Because they listened to our requests and were willing to try something new. It worked and all the divers in our group had fun doing things a little differently. It was a consensus.

You will always be judged and miss-judged.

Don't come aboard the vessel like I do. I like two computers; one is a tech computer. Don't hog loop your primary and necklace your secondary, and etc. Conform.

To the DM, you are the lowest common denominator, and always will be until they get to know you--and then the dive op will change-out DMs on you. So sorry, start building a relationship with your new DM all over again. Sucks to be you!

Move along little doggy, move along... You're on a cattle boat. Moo, Moo!

As a Monterey diver, I would accept you as an insta-buddy right away. Monterey is not for the faint of heart.

As @stuartv stated, tell the DM how many dives you have accomplished in the last year and add that you are a Monterey diver and nothing more.

Good luck,
m