How to tell if air is 02 clean air?

[brysonjk]

I have been looking for this answer for some time. I have my tanks O2 cleaned, and now I am looking at places to fill them. My normal place that is the cheapest was great but when i asked him if it was O2 clean air, he politely said

"I don't know... It is clean, triple filtered, less then 4% relative humidity, but since we don't mix nitrox, I don't know what 02 clean air is."

Now the reason I like this shop of 1. Price of air fills, and 2. Honesty of the people. He could of easily said sure, and sent me on my way. Now is am left with my question...

What certification has to be met to call air "02 clean air"? Is it a PPM of hydrocarbons, dew point, etc...

Any info would be a great help

Thanks

 

[ron_cooper]

Found this, it might help.
Fill Express -- Quality of Breathing Gases

 

[Lowrad]

The Dive Shop owner may be smarter than he is honest he knows the rules when someone asks that question so we must commend him for that.

This could be a really interesting thread and could be very challenging not to open people up to certain liabilities highly controversially conversational fun. LOL.

What is oxygen clean?

Oxygen clean is the confirmable nonexistence of particulate, fiber, oil, grease and other contaminants. Confirmable nonexistence is determined through the use of qualitative and quantitative cleanliness measurement techniques.

For all intensive purposes one would have to be insane to think that this standard could be maintained within the realms of scuba even the thought of this is not only stupid it is dangerous.

Oxygen Clean Air

1. Compressor must use synthetic lubricants or be an oil-less compressor (RIX) not much sense in O2 cleaning your equipment if not...

2. Compressor must produce grade E air or whatever is required within the country.

3. If the compressor is producing good quality air and meets the requirements in the first two requirements it can be set up for continuous blending quite inexpensively and then can blend up to 50% Nitrox safely.

The banks lines and anything that this air passes through will need to be cleaned for O2 usage...

Basically that's O2 Clean Air according to the scuba industry.

What is Triple filtration?

Triple filtration for the most part is a single filter cartridge which contain 3 filter medias where in the air or gases pass through... It is possible to get better quality of air by passing it through multiple cartridges but in order to get Oxygen Compatible Air you need to pass the gas through high purity chemicals...

What is Oxygen Compatible Air?

According to Global Manufacturing Corp...

Hyper-Filtration for Nitrox Preparation With the widespread popularity of Nitrox diving, numerous dive shops are mixing air with pure oxygen to produce saleable "enriched air" mixtures. For safe blending, compressed air of purity greater than normal Grade E must be used. Known as "Oxygen Compatible Air" or OCA, this gas is permitted to have no more than 0.1 mg / M3 of hydrocarbon contaminants, whereas Grade E scuba air can contain 50 times that amount (5 mg / M3). Some dive shops are able to produce OCA with their regular processing systems if the compressor, lubricant, moisture separators and filters all function absolutely flawlessly. Many other air systems cannot achieve air of this purity under any circumstances. To routinely obtain OCA, most shops reprocess their Grade E air by passing it through an addition special filter known as a Hyper-Filter, which are described below . Hyper-FiIter Systems These special hi-tensile aluminum towers will accept ONLY specific Hyper-Filter cartridges which actually "recirculate" the gas through high-purity chemicals that remove even trace level hydrocarbons. These super-filtration systems also control the pressure and flow rate at which the gas moves through the chemicals, thereby assuring complete removal of finite contaminants. Each Hyper-Filter System consists of the tower(s) with filter cartridge(s) plus pressure-controlling priority regulator, flow governor, gauge and check valves, all mounted on an aluminum base plate. Double and single tower systems are available. This apparatus not only produces OCA, but also serves as a safety backup in case of an unforeseen compressor / filter failure which releases dangerously high levels of hydrocarbon-contaminated air!

The systems work great they are slow and the cost is outrageous...

When dealing with O2 and trans filling remember slow slower and slower...

Hope this Helps.

 

[mksmith713]

Must be talking about ScubaHut.......

 

[brysonjk]

No it wasn't scubahut. LOL. The shop I am talking about is Sea Colony Aqua Sports in Severna Park MD. The thing is I love this shop. They have great people, good service, trust worthy people, don't try to squeeze every dollar out of you, and just all around a wonderful little shop. Their air has served me well before my tanks were O2 cleaned, but now that I have paid for the service, and they do not deal with Nitrox at all, It just had me wondering about compatibility with the O2. If for some reason I get a tank that I don't have O2 cleaned, I would always get my air from that place. The tell you about scubahut would require a PM. LOL.

 

[mksmith713]

Why would you have your tanks O2 cleaned if you aren't diving nitrox?
If you are diving nitrox, why fill them with air?
I have tanks dedicated to air and nitrox.
I use air for shore diving and notrox for boat diving.
I understand, living in Maryland,that it might be cost effective to have that many tanks since the dive season is only about 3 days long........LOL
I know, I did my rescue work at Guppy Gulch and froze my @ss off.

No need to tell me about Scuba Hut. I've had first hand experience with them.
They tried to tell my daughter that the regs I gave her (my old backups) couldn't be rebuilt or overhauled. Then tried to sell her new stuff.
Thanks goodness she called me to complain about the junk I'd given her before she tosssed them and bought new.
I sent them to Larry (DAAQUAMASTER) and he not only rebuilt them, he upgraded them.
How can you not be able to rebuild Scuba Pro MkV's and R 109's. There are tons of clones out there, especially the MkV's and the 109's use the same kit as the 250's.

That's my experience with them. NO PM REQUIRED.......

 

[Van Isle]

What certification has to be met to call air "02 clean air"? Is it a PPM of hydrocarbons, dew point, etc...

Thanks

The answers to this question will be as vague as the "regulations" that govern them. I will offer some humble tips:

1. You only need O2 clean tanks if you are dealing with a mix higher than 40% going in to or out of the tank. i.e partial pressure fills use 100% O2, you'd need your tank O2 cleaned, even if the final mix is 32%. If your favourite shop banks 32%, or uses another method that does not have high FO2 entering your tank, you don't need it to be O2 cleaned.

2. A "consensus" (but not a regulation) of <0.1mg/m3 of hydrocarbons seems to be agreed upon, or sort of a modified CGA Grade E. "O2 clean air" has many different criteria depending on who you are talking to - USN, DOT, OCA, CGA, etc. Also, it may not even be necessary depending on who you talk to. A good O2 cleaning maintenance program for your gear and safe O2 handling practices at the fill station are far more important than a certificate from one of the myriad different and opposing "certification" agencies for whatever THEY might call "O2 clean air."

3. Despite not being certified as "O2 clean air" most shops with modern fill stations meet or surpass any of the vague requirements by the numerous entities. If your shop has a well-maintained hyper filter that seems to be a clue to good air.

4. How would a shop know you hadn't used "O2 clean air?" in the past?

5. Buy, read, and understand The Oxygen Hacker's Companion for more information.

This information is worth exactly what you paid for it.

VI

(I know a "tech" who "O2 cleans" tanks by writing on his shop's vis stickers "O2 CLEAN" with a pen. Not safe, not ethical, not smart, but no tanks or valves have burned from partial pressure blending...)

 

[brysonjk]

I don't have the money for dedicated tanks. That is the main reason. I plan to be some places where I will need to get nitrox via partial pressure blending. How long ago did this happen with scubahut

 

[muddiver]

One safe way is to find a shop that is an ANDI SafeAir supplier. The ANDI SafeAir standards actually exceed most of the standards mentioned above and is the cleanist breathing air available.

The second thing you can do besides asking the shop if they provide oxygen compatable air, is to look at teh air analysis certificate that they should have available for your review. If a shop does not have the air they pump analysed, you probably should get your fill else where, regardless of weather you want Nitrox or not.

Grade E air is not considered oxygen compatable in the United States if you are blending by the partial pressure method and starting with the oxygen during the blend.

 

[brysonjk]

So what exactly are my looking for when I see this report? What hydrocarbon PPM, water content?