How to start out in tech diving?

[dive_lover88]

Thanks guys for your inputs and help. Going to start planning for the future.

 

[dbush]

Let me clarify. When I say find an instructor that fails at least 30%, I say that because it is a good indicator of several things. First the rigor of the program, and secondly that when you do finally get your card, you really and truely deserve it. Tech is not like PADI OW. Any buffoon can take OW, pay his money, and get a card. The standards are low and (in my mind) overly accomodating. The danger here is that an instructor will pass people who are not up to standards yet. In tech that can get people killed. For most people the alloted class time simply isn't enough and they need to be told that their skills are not up to standards and that they need to work on them and come back. Personally, both my buddy and I "failed" the first time through on both DIR F and Tech 1. And let me tell you my instructor was hard on us. If my buddy screwed something up, I got chewed out for not anticipating it and reacting in time. It was certainly no fun getting chewed out for this that and the other, nor was it fun having to come back again to finish the class, but when I was done, I really felt I had succesfully met a very high standard.

As far as penetration, you are right GUE doesn't offer it except as cave. My buddy and I are interested in deep wreck penetration and now that we have the deep mixed gas stuff out of the way, we are planning on doing the cave class with GUE next year. This may not be exactly wreck penetration, but I think the similarities are sufficient for one to qualify you for the other with some minor adaptations that can certainly be discussed during class.

Finally, one last point, please don't make the mistake of believing I am saying only GUE has the "right stuff", it is just that I find they set their standards high in general. Really it is the instructor that makes the difference. A good instructor can make a crappy program something really good. So after all is said and done, find a good, tough instructor that will make sure you are ready to dive deep safely.

 

[Cave Diver]

Let me clarify. When I say find an instructor that fails at least 30%, I say that because it is a good indicator of several things. First the rigor of the program, and secondly that when you do finally get your card, you really and truely deserve it.

Bull pucky.

An instructor that fails at least 30% of his students either isn't screening his students well enough to make sure they have the requisite skills to take the class, or he does a poor job at relaying the information a student needs in order to pass the class.

A good instructor will likely realize immediately that a student is beyond their current capability, stop the class and recommend remedial training before it get's to a pass/fail situation.

A good instructor will also likely work with a student to bring them up to the level so that they can pass the class if the student shows promise, but is slightly lacking in execution.

I think it's important to find an instructor who is willing to fail a student if necessary, but having an arbitray failure rate does not sound like a good solution.

 

[Jason Ooi]

Good point..well done John

Bull pucky.

An instructor that fails at least 30% of his students either isn't screening his students well enough to make sure they have the requisite skills to take the class, or he does a poor job at relaying the information a student needs in order to pass the class.

A good instructor will likely realize immediately that a student is beyond their current capability, stop the class and recommend remedial training before it get's to a pass/fail situation.

A good instructor will also likely work with a student to bring them up to the level so that they can pass the class if the student shows promise, but is slightly lacking in execution.

I think it's important to find an instructor who is willing to fail a student if necessary, but having an arbitray failure rate does not sound like a good solution.

 

[dbush]

but having an arbitray failure rate does not sound like a good solution.

I'm an engineer, I talk in numbers. Sometimes people read too much into my numbers. Perhaps you missed my summary, "So after all is said and done, find a good, tough instructor that will make sure you are ready to dive deep safely." I think we are all saying the same thing here.

 

[BarryNL]

4. Find an instructor that fails at least 30% of his students the first time through. The higher the percentage, the better. Personally, I reccomend GUE. The training is great. Internal politics are tearing them apart, and you should listen to everything they tell you and then make up your own mind, but the training is top notch.

This is a bad idea. If the course is something like DIR-F where its designed as a learning experience and 'passing' is a bonus, that's fine. But most courses are designed to be passed first time and an instructor with a high fail rate is a poor instructor.

What you really want to find is an instructor who will take the time to teach the course properly rather than half teach it and fail you for not working the rest out for yourself - or, perhaps worse, pass you anyway.

 

[BarryNL]

I'll follow that up with an example of the company I'm doing my DSAT Tec Deep training with and why. For a start they actually wanted me to do a couple of dives with one of their divemasters first in the 40m range to see how my skills were and whether I was up to the course (could I control an ascent with simulated deco stops, deploy an SMB, etc.) plus another dive with tec gear to see if I was up to handling the equipment.

That, plus they usually take about 18 dives to do the course instead of the DSAT specified 12 because they like to do a lot of the exercises shallower than specified by DSAT the first time round to make sure everyone can do them before doing them at the proper depths.

 

[dbush]

Ugh, I feel so misunderstood! :jpshakehe I'm just saying that you should find an instructor that will be sure you have properly mastered all the skills. I disagree with your assertion that if you have not mastered the skills by the end of the class it is the instructors fault. The reason you are taking the class is to learn new skills. If you knew them at the begining, the class would simply be a checkout. Some people learn slower than others and need more practice. At the end of our class the instructor told us why he did not pass us and what we needed to work on. We went off and practiced our skills and got better. We then came back to the instructor for another "final exam". He did everything in his power to teach us the skills and we understood everything in our head, we just needed more practice and I am very glad that he did it the way he did. I hope I've made my point sufficiently clear that even if you don't agree, at least you understand what I mean.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Ugh, I feel so misunderstood! :jpshakehe I'm just saying that you should find an instructor that will be sure you have properly mastered all the skills. I disagree with your assertion that if you have not mastered the skills by the end of the class it is the instructors fault. The reason you are taking the class is to learn new skills. If you knew them at the begining, the class would simply be a checkout. Some people learn slower than others and need more practice. At the end of our class the instructor told us why he did not pass us and what we needed to work on. We went off and practiced our skills and got better. We then came back to the instructor for another "final exam". He did everything in his power to teach us the skills and we understood everything in our head, we just needed more practice and I am very glad that he did it the way he did. I hope I've made my point sufficiently clear that even if you don't agree, at least you understand what I mean.

I think you're on the right track. You don't necessarily want an instructor that fails people but you want an instructor who doesn't pass them until they're ready to pass.

 

[dbush]

I think you're on the right track. You don't necessarily want an instructor that fails people but you want an instructor who doesn't pass them until they're ready to pass.

Yes! If I had a golden star to give you, I would! Perhaps it was my fault for using the word "fail". I guess it sounds so final.