How to (politely) advocate for more weight?

[BlueTrin]

I'm not in disagreement with anything you have just narrated, with one exception, which I did mention previously, which you have chosen to look past.

What about the thousands of divers, who have not been trained by current methods, and still follow religiously what they were taught 20/40 years ago, a lot of which is now considered incorrect. And, still do not have proper control of correct buoyancy practices.

Do they not matter, would not a PPB course be of benefit to them.

When was training ever a bad thing, maybe not reaching perfection, which comes through years of practice and sometimes never comes, but still better than not knowing what you don't know.

Don't forget for a minute, everyone in the water was not trained yesterday.

with respect,

Rose

Re-read the history, it seems that you are getting annoyed because you misread the post below (emphasis in yellow)

I fully understand that, having taught it. These days, however, I believe that properly taught OW students do not need Peak Performance Buoyancy.

 

[boulderjohn]

Do they not matter, would not a PPB course be of benefit to them.

Re read my posts and see how many times I said that people who are taught on the knees need PPB, but people who are taught while neutrally buoyant are not.

 

[SlugLife]

Part of my AOW course was "peak performance buoyancy." I didn't learn much from PPB, but only because I had learned 98% of the material already, much of it from my OW course. The one advantage of PPB I did receive was mostly a reminder and additional buoyancy practice.

While my memory of OW is a little fuzzy, I remember starting the class in the pool with some on-the-knee drills. (I don't remember if we did drills neutral, during pool exercises). Then during the open-water portion, I think we had a couple knee drills, but also did the same drills while neutral. Given the water was very murky at our local-lake, I too would have probably done the same thing (I'm not an instructor), just because of how easy it is to lose students.

 

[chrispina]

I'm definitely plus sized and they always want to start me with 12# and I say "LOL no. Start me with 20#" and that's with the 3# of ankle weights I bring with me. Even then, I usually need a other 2-4, and that's without a wetsuit.

I'm doing my Peak Performance Buoyancy adventure dive as part of my AOW next week and hopefully we can settle it.

People carry weight differently and you can't really judge someone's density by looking at them. I weigh about 20 lbs more than my 18 year old son and I float like a fishing bobber and he sinks like a stone.

 

[BlueTrin]

People carry weight differently and you can't really judge someone's density by looking at them. I weigh about 20 lbs more than my 18 year old son and I float like a fishing bobber and he sinks like a stone.

Usually skinny and more muscular will mean more dense and requiring less weight.

Muscle is about 1.1g/mL so will be negatively buoyant in fresh water.

Fat is about 0.9g/mL so will be positively buoyant in fresh water.

Water is 1g/mL for reference, if unfamiliar with Litres and grams. (bones are apparently “only” 1.9g/mL)

 

[chrispina]

Usually skinny and more muscular will mean more dense and requiring less weight.

Muscle is about 1.1g/mL so will be negatively buoyant in fresh water.

Fat is about 0.9g/mL so will be positively buoyant in fresh water.

Water is 1g/mL for reference, if unfamiliar with Litres and grams.

I get it, but when looking at a person in a wetsuit, you don't know how much muscle is under their fluff. My son is definitely not skinny or obviously muscular, but he is super dense. He's been on a swim team but still can't float on his back. It's like he's carrying an anvil in his pocket.

 

[BlueTrin]

I get it, but when looking at a person in a wetsuit, you don't know how much muscle is under their fluff. My son is definitely not skinny or obviously muscular, but he is super dense. He's been on a swim team but still can't float on his back. It's like he's carrying an anvil in his pocket.

Yea I understand, I am probably not as muscular as him but although I can backstroke, I definitely cannot float on my back.

When I say this on holidays or in the water, people keep trying to teach me how to float on my back like if I could become buoyant

Although I am closer to being buoyant in a pool nowadays …

 

[Esprise Me]

Yeah, as mentioned earlier, women tend to need more lead because our body composition is different. Notice how, on these body fat percentage charts, what's merely "fair" (not excellent or even good) for a young man borders on "dangerously low" for a woman, while a percentage that's on the border of "good" and "fair" for an older woman borders on "dangerously high" for a man of the same age. Body fat percentage chart: Women, men, and calculations

But as in many areas of life, there's a common and unfortunate tendency to view the male norms as the default for everyone. Hopefully as more women get into the sport and more women become DMs and instructors, it will become less of an uphill battle to get what we need.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Yeah, as mentioned earlier, women tend to need more lead because our body composition is different. Notice how, on these body fat percentage charts, what's merely "fair" (not excellent or even good) for a young man borders on "dangerously low" for a woman, while a percentage that's on the border of "good" and "fair" for an older woman borders on "dangerously high" for a man of the same age. Body fat percentage chart: Women, men, and calculations

But as in many areas of life, there's a common and unfortunate tendency to view the male norms as the default for everyone. Hopefully as more women get into the sport and more women become DMs and instructors, it will become less of an uphill battle to get what we need.

The change that I'd like to see is to throw out these weight estimators and do something more accurate right off the bat. I'm certainly not the smartest guy, but what I came up with is this: How I weight students in open water courses. I came up with this for the following reality.

No one in the Puget Sound area does the agency mandated weight checks as that is time which is limited in cold water. Plus with on the knees training being so common, it is just weigh them down and soldier on. All the agencies know this reality. Only the shops that teach neutrally buoyant and trim figure it out in advance.

I think a bigger issue is exposure protection made in a one-shape fits all.