How to do the frog kick?

[Dash]

I dont see how this video doesnt explain it. I think the key is to not overthink it...just spread your legs a bit and bring your feet back together, let the water resistance torque the bottom of the fins, and your feet, toward each other.

[video=youtube;HnJzOkUH7N4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnJzOkUH7N4&feature=related[/video]

 

[danvolker]

I dont see how this video doesnt explain it. I think the key is to not overthink it...just spread your legs a bit and bring your feet back together, let the water resistance torque the bottom of the fins, and your feet, toward each other.

[video=youtube;HnJzOkUH7N4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnJzOkUH7N4&feature=related[/video]

I agree, this video is perfect.
Point out the knee and hip action to spread the legs out and then the use of the hamstrings to pull them back together...and then the articulation needed at the ankle to rotate the fins....you might even break down the movements into 2 separate drills, for a diver having a hard time "getting this".... I think most should get the spreading of the legs and pull back, but for some, you might need to make up some drills on doing only the ankle articulation...let them concentrate on it, perfect it, then do it all together.

 

[BabyDuck]

lynne hit it - 'clapping the bottoms of your feet together'.

where do you think you're getting stuck? any chance of posting a video of yourself?

 

[g1138]

Purely out of curiosity why do you consider the frog kick important as a DM?

I agree that the frog kick has its merits but it only really becomes important in silty conditions generally related to penetrations or caves, neither of which should be applicable to DM activities with students.

It's important for all divers who need to make minute forward movements. As a quick example, if you're moving in between a closely spaced group (like a student semi circle during drills), you'll be doing a lot of helicopter turns and maybe even back kicks to avoid going head first into the person you're swimming towards. Frog kicks assists in the transition between these different kicks. Flutter kicks don't; they're ungainly because you have to sweep your whole leg in a big up-down arch.

Add a sandy bottom into the equation and you've now got your silt environment.

 

[Nemrod]

Possibly the problem exists with the starting position. With other "kicks" the feet and fins are generally in alignment with the body and the legs are extended. With the frog kick and the variations of it the fins are held above the diver with the knees bent. The problem many have is that they are not actually horizontal in the water and hips straight. If you are in the common and typical head up and feet down, hips bent trim the frog will be difficult.

I do not get all hung up on "kicks" as I would use whichever kick is most effective at the moment. I switch between the various types fluidly as needed and as suits me at the moment. Most people will find Jet Fins and similar all rubber fins will rotate their feet/extended legs down ruining their trim unless they keep their knees bent and the fins retracted above their body and soles parallel to the body. The hips should not be bent, a ruler laid along the anterior body from chin to knee should be straight, in this stage of the kick. In other words keep your feet up, knees bent and hips and body straight to facilitate proper horizontal trim.

Contrary to popular "science" the Jet Fin is very effective when used in a flutter kick and proper body positioning and technique does not stir the bottom and in many places you are not near the bottom anyways.

N

 

[TSandM]

I agree that the frog kick has its merits but it only really becomes important in silty conditions generally related to penetrations or caves, neither of which should be applicable to DM activities with students.

Contrary to popular "science" the Jet Fin is very effective when used in a flutter kick and proper body positioning and technique does not stir the bottom and in many places you are not near the bottom anyways.

There are certainly places where classes are taught over silty sediments! Working either in Puget Sound or Lake Washington, I love the ability NOT to add to the visibility mess that's being created by students. Proper trim and a nice frog, or modified frog, makes keeping my contribution to a minimum very easy.

I agree with you, Nemrod, that Jets work just fine for a flutter kick -- I was watching a brand new dry suit student last night doing a beautiful long-leg flutter using mine. I will disagree, however, that the flutter kick doesn't raise silt. Even if you are several feet off the bottom, the water being pushed by the downward stroke will hit the silt and cause reduced visibility. There is a REASON the long-leg flutter is not used by anyone who operates in silty environments where visibility has to be maintained.

 

[windapp]

I tried the frog kick two weekends ago and it surprised the heck out of me. In surge I was used to kick kick kick kick kick kick gliiiiiiiiiide. With the frog kick I got kick glIIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide, wait for my buddy, kick gliiiiiiiiiiide, wait for my buddy.

 

[coldwatercanada]

Frog kick is a tool its usefull in some situations but not in others. As a PADI instructor its not a required skill for the OW or AOW so unless students express interest for it i don't teach it. I do teach it with my PPB courses though. I also try and add a pool session to the PPB class before hitting ow!

The most important part of making this kick effective is the angle of your feet. If you are bring your fins together With out that angle the edges are just cutting the water!

 

[Colliam7]

I'm a recently certified PADI Divemaster, but still find some difficulty in doing the frog kick.

Kudos to you for beginning to work on developing an effective frog kick. You will find it very beneficial. Hopefully, some of the responses have helped you.

Purely out of curiosity why do you consider the frog kick important as a DM? I agree that the frog kick has its merits but it only really becomes important in silty conditions generally related to penetrations or caves, neither of which should be applicable to DM activities with students.

It is particularly important as a DM, and the silty conditions routinely encountered in DM activities with OW students are entirely unrelated to penetration or caves, when so much OW training is done in inland lakes and quarries.

If you had said that mastering helicopter turns or swimming backwards was important to a DM so as to allow accurate maneuvering in the water, fine. But frog kicking as an important OW DM skill doesn't seem logical.

I would agree that both back kicks and helicopter turns are also important (and too often overlooked) finning techniques for DMs. But the frog kick is quite important.

Frog kick is a tool its usefull in some situations but not in others. As a PADI instructor its not a required skill for the OW or AOW so unless students express interest for it i don't teach it.

Opinions differ, obviously. Your are right, it is not required. And, I agree that the frog is not always the ideal kick (e.g., in heavy current, you come off the ascent line on a boat dive, and you are faced with a lonely drifting deco, or surface wait for the boat to pick you up, vs kicking like the dickens to get back to the line - in which case I prefer the flutter.) But, I think the frog kick is probably the single most useful finning technique available to divers, and it is one that many divers (including some instructors), particularly those who have little or no formal swim training, are unfamiliar with and/or unable to do effectively. In fact, I have OW students start using it to the extent possible in the pool in Confined Water Dive 1 (as I have them start holding their hands together to stop sculling beginning with CW Dive 1), and I regularly emphasize it throughout OW training, including the OW dives, where I will actively correct divers who are not using it. In AOW I re-double the emphasis on the frog as their primary finning technique. In fact, prior to the Orientation session for OW classes (and AOW classes) I send the enrolled students by email the links to several YouTube videos on finning techniques - specifically the frog kick - and buoyancy control, including the one Dash posted).

For a DM leading a tour it is a very effective kick to allow for SLOW, effective movement through the water. In fact, the initial post by the OP about a recent experience leading a group of divers as a new DM is worthwhile reading.

The flutter kick produces a downward thrust vector, irrespective of where you are in the vertical water colum. Yes, it may not matter - it is more noticable in the diver swimming along, near the bottom, at a 45 degree angle. But, even with great horizontal trim, if you are anywhere near the bottom (within 5 feet) the flutter has the effect of kicking up silt or sand, or disturbing some of the more sensitive u/w life (sea fans for example).

Is it the ONLY kick useful to a diver - of course not. It is not a great finning technique when you are in a close cluster of divers. But, if I have a choice, I prefer that my OW students come out of their initial training knowing how to frog kick rather than flutter kick.

 

[miketsp]

..snip..
If you are diving in an area with any significant currents, then there is a huge advantage to swimming very close to the bottom--where skin friction drag reduces the drag from the current that interferes with the diver.
..snip..
So open water divers, or AOW divers, on a reef off of Cozumel, or Palm Beach, may very well need to be near the bottom to dive comfortably and without effort....However, if the training agency has left out the frog kick in the tool box of skills these divers have, they will be using the flutter kick, and most will be leaving a trail of silt behind them...not to mention potentially kicking the reef once in a while.
Teaching the frog kick to them would help them experience good versus bad trim--the long glide phase in the frog kick requires decent trim...so they are less likely to be head up and feet down, the worst scenario for being close to the bottom. And with the frog kick done properly along the bottom, they will hide from the current, be better on air consumption, and they wil not silt up the bottom ( which even off of the sand off the ledges of the reef, they will kick up if they flutter into it).

Maybe just my personal opinion but if I haven't got an overhead to stop me raising my feet, then I find a half flutter lets me swim even closer to the bottom, in a less tiring manner, and without raising any silt whatsoever.

It's important for all divers who need to make minute forward movements. As a quick example, if you're moving in between a closely spaced group (like a student semi circle during drills), you'll be doing a lot of helicopter turns and maybe even back kicks to avoid going head first into the person you're swimming towards. Frog kicks assists in the transition between these different kicks. Flutter kicks don't; they're ungainly because you have to sweep your whole leg in a big up-down arch.

Add a sandy bottom into the equation and you've now got your silt environment.

Again, assuming it's a frog or a flutter and nothing in between.

On a typical dive I'll be mixing all kinds of fin movements according to whatever is appropriate at the time.