how to dive with non-DIR divers?

[Don Wray]

I've always found it rather interesting the number of times someone will come to the DIR forum and have a post "hit them the wrong way" because folks are talking about diving DIR-style ...

Does that happen in the solo forum too? Do people go over there and get all huffed up because someone else wants to dive solo?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Are you then saying it is "DIR style" to not dive with anyone so trained by GUE?

 

[dsteding]

Are you then saying it is "DIR style" to not dive with anyone so trained by GUE?

Where are you getting that? Bob doesn't even mention GUE in his post.

Dude, this IS the DIR forum. Can we please have discussions that remain on point and do not degenerate into another GUE/DIR bash?:shakehead

 

[Don Wray]

I'm sorry d...I understood that GUE taught DIR. I am not in any way attempting to bash DIR/GUE. My inference was to the OP wanting to know how to handle infidels whom they (the DIR inclined) had to dive with. It is that arrogance that everyone else is doing it wrong that instigates my responses. I have seen many DIR type divers and they look great, dive great etc. I have also seen many divers whom have never heard of GUE or DIR that look great, dive cleanly and safely etc. I do not attempt to debase the training just the stigma that everyone else is doing it wrong.

 

[dsteding]

My inference was to the OP wanting to know how to handle infidels whom they (the DIR inclined) had to dive with. It is that arrogance that everyone else is doing it wrong that instigates my responses.

You know, quite honestly, this is getting tired. The OP, and the respondents to the question are not refering to others as "infidels" nor are they, imho, being arrogant. What we have is someone who is (a) interested in the DIR philosophy who is (b) having trouble finding dive buddies that are similarily interested in his area. Given that, he is posting here--in the DIR forum--to seek advice. Coming into this forum and posting digressions like the above don't follow the TOS for this forum, nor do they contribute to the constructive dialogue going on in this thread.

IMHO, your views are a bit antiquated. Trust me, I understand where they come from, but DIR diving is in the middle of a bit of a transformation in terms of it becoming more widespread and regularly adopted. Please don't come into this forum and derail our constructive conversations, there is the Whine & Cheese forum for your types of rants.

You've already apologized once for your posts, if you believed that apology then I don't understand why you are going there again.

 

[lamont]

Are you then saying it is "DIR style" to not dive with anyone so trained by GUE?

The problem with trying to discuss this intelligently is that largely the problem that people are describing is that as they become safer divers they don't want to dive with unsafe divers, but they're talking about DIR and not-DIR instead.

When we were cavern diving in MX I was with a bunch of DIR/GUE-trained or -oriented divers (some hadn't yet taken DIRF but were headed that way) and we had a great time and our cavern dive complimented us on how easy it was to take us out. We also saw another group of divers come up where one guy was complaining of having hyperventilation and tunnel vision at 50 fsw in the Taj Mahal cavern, he surfaced with a nosebleed due to mask squeeze and another woman in the group was having a panic attack the whole time. Yikes. I was much happier with my DIR buddies than that not-DIR group, but the real issue was that we were being safe while I don't think they were. On the other hand I've dove recreationally with IANTD trained divers that were indistinguishable from someone who had taken DIRF.

For technical diving as divers progress it becomes more important that divers be on the same page wrt training and emergency procedures as well. At the extreme you've got dives like in Wakulla where it makes sense to have the entire team on the same page and trained up together with the same procedures. In that sense it is not DIR to dive with non-DIR divers just because the training is *different* and that compromises safety underwater.

 

[Carribeandiver]

I'm sorry d...I understood that GUE taught DIR. I am not in any way attempting to bash DIR/GUE. My inference was to the OP wanting to know how to handle infidels whom they (the DIR inclined) had to dive with. It is that arrogance that everyone else is doing it wrong that instigates my responses. I have seen many DIR type divers and they look great, dive great etc. I have also seen many divers whom have never heard of GUE or DIR that look great, dive cleanly and safely etc. I do not attempt to debase the training just the stigma that everyone else is doing it wrong.

Whoa, Whoa, hold on one minute. Please go back and read my post. Never ever do I mention or imply I am a better diver or too good to dive with anyone. What I do mention is that since I have now adopted and insist on employing a dive philosophy that it is difficult to dive with those who do not accept or also implement that philosophy.
To put it simply, to practice and dive the GUE DIR system, it is best to dive with those who also dive the GUE DIR system. Not because I am better or the GUE DIR system is better (even though I believe it is) but because certain protocols that are imperative to that system are not understood or practiced by non DIR divers.
It is not arrogance; although, I thank you for the accusation for it implies I have something to be arrogant about, but rather, it is a desire to improve.

 

[Adobo]

I'm sorry d...I understood that GUE taught DIR. I am not in any way attempting to bash DIR/GUE. My inference was to the OP wanting to know how to handle infidels whom they (the DIR inclined) had to dive with. It is that arrogance that everyone else is doing it wrong that instigates my responses. I have seen many DIR type divers and they look great, dive great etc. I have also seen many divers whom have never heard of GUE or DIR that look great, dive cleanly and safely etc. I do not attempt to debase the training just the stigma that everyone else is doing it wrong.

Don, it sounds like you might have walked into this thing late. People have been going on and on and on about how DIR implies that everyone else is doing it wrong. I bet if you go back to the oldest archives of Scubaboard, one of the first threads there is about DIR, doing it wrong, blah blah blah. Honestly, this horse has been dead for ages. And I cannot count how many times it has been flogged over and over again. Save yourself the aggravation. Everyone knows that the term DIR is found to be offensive. Everyone knows there are jerks out there - DIR or otherwise. The only thing that ever happens is that non-DIR people talk about how offended they are and the DIR people talk about how they are misunderstood. There is no need to rehash this thing yet another time. Believe me, you are better doing something far more pleasurable. Like scratching a chalkboard.

 

[Adobo]

I've always found it rather interesting the number of times someone will come to the DIR forum and have a post "hit them the wrong way" because folks are talking about diving DIR-style ...

Does that happen in the solo forum too? Do people go over there and get all huffed up because someone else wants to dive solo?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I wonder if dive-rite gets all kinds of complaints. As an example, I use an oxycheq wing. Does that mean that I dive-wrong?

 

[lamont]

Don, it sounds like you might have walked into this thing late. People have been going on and on and on about how DIR implies that everyone else is doing it wrong. I bet if you go back to the oldest archives of Scubaboard, one of the first threads there is about DIR, doing it wrong, blah blah blah.

First thread on the board mentioning "DIW" (doing it wrong) from 4/10/2002:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=8260&highlight=diw*

Also has UP mentioning DIVERITE vs. DIVEWRONG.

 

[lamont]

The first DIR-specific thread I think I can find is here (03-06-2001):

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=1068&highlight=DIR*

O-ring posted his first post-DIRF question here I think (04-25-2002):

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=8815&highlight=DIR*

...oh, no that's actually his first post-reading-JJs-book question, his DIRF class writeup is here (07-23-2002):

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=12361&highlight=DIR*

Jeff (Spectre) speechless on seeing the DIRF skills videos on fifthd (07-15-2002):

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?p=120456&highlight=fifthd#post120456