How to ascend with an unresponsive diver??

[michaelp68]

I've been thinking about this and am hoping for some input.

I'm currently taking a Rescue class. I know what the book says about ascending with an unresponsive diver and I know what my instructor has said.

I'm thinking that I'll hopefully never have to do anything like this, but in the event I do, I've been wondering about the pros and cons of ascending using my inflator hose, the victim's or both, with the goal of both of us making it to the surface without having taken a rocket ride....

What do you think?

Michael

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

Use the victim's to make a controlled ascent. Should something happen to separate you from the victim they will continue on as they are positive. And you should be able to deal with whatever the issue is and utilize your own inflator to catch up/meet at the surface. If you make it to the surface with the vic and they are in panic mode you are not positive and can quickly descend a few feet out of their line of sight (which means you basically don't exist in the eyes of a panicy diver) and come up behind them. Get ahold of the tank valve and wrap your legs around the tank to control the situation at that point.

 

[Snowbear]

Have you considered controlling the buoyancy for you as well as the victim? If you can do this and *truly* control the ascent, there's a better chance you will maintain control of the victim (not become seperated) and one or both won't be "rocketed to the surface." This takes a bit more doing on your part, but if you've already got the concept of neutral buoyancy for yourself down pat, with a little practice it's not as difficult as you're probably thinking

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've been thinking about this and am hoping for some input.

I'm currently taking a Rescue class. I know what the book says about ascending with an unresponsive diver and I know what my instructor has said.

I'm thinking that I'll hopefully never have to do anything like this, but in the event I do, I've been wondering about the pros and cons of ascending using my inflator hose, the victim's or both, with the goal of both of us making it to the surface without having taken a rocket ride....

What do you think?

Michael

1. Approach an apparently unresponsive victim from behind (preferably on the right side), shake a foot or lower leg to determine unresponsiveness.

2. If unresponsive, from behind the victim slide your right arm underneath their right arm and hold their reg in their mouth (assuming it's there to begin with).

3. Vent all the air from your BCD and drysuit (if you're wearing one).

4. Inflate victim's BCD just enough to assist you in getting them in an upright position.

5. While holding victim's inflator hose in your left hand, SWIM the victim up at a controlled rate (keep yourself safe by keeping the ascent controlled) ... vent the victim's BCD as required to avoid ascending too rapidly (remember that the air in the BCD will expand as you ascend).

6. As soon as you're on the surface, fully inflate the victim's BCD. Then fully inflate your own.

7. Determine whether the victim is breathing and respond as required by the victim's condition.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I'm reading "nonresponsive" as either semi/un-conscious or in the throes of some convulsions, such that they do not respond to your efforts but neither do they fight you - as a panicked diver might.

Best technique I've seen is to approach the diver from the rear. Get them to a vertical position and ascend vertically. Run your right arm under their right arm and use right hand to hold their regulator in their mouth. Run your left arm beneath their left arm and use left hand to operate their wing inflator (and drysuit valve). You have too much going on to deal with two sets of wing inflators and drysuit valves simultaneously - yours AND theirs. So, ensure your own wing is empty (so to minimize the expansion/increased positive bouyancy during ascent) and that you're negatively bouyant, and operate their inflator to execute the rescue.

[Do not drop their weights. You seek to control the ascent all the way to the surface. Drop their weights on the surface as required, to facilitate post-ascent movement, treatment, etc.]

Swim the victim up at a normal rate of ascent keeping both of you together neutrally bouyant during ascent. If they go into active convulsions, stop the ascent because their throat may lock shut, continuing the ascent may result in lung overexpansion injuries. After convulsions subside, continue the ascent. Focus on controlling the last 20-30 feet to avoid an uncontrolled runaway final ascent to the surface.

If you run into trouble on the ascent, however, the guiding criteria is: "we can fix bent; we can't work with dead." Get them up and to medical response. If you omitted decompression to get them to the surface, remember that you also may need medical attention. If you're only on the surface briefly you may be able to hand off the diver and descend to do your deco. Otherwise, stand by for a chamber ride.

 

[michaelp68]

Use the victim's to make a controlled ascent. Should something happen to separate you from the victim they will continue on as they are positive. And you should be able to deal with whatever the issue is and utilize your own inflator to catch up/meet at the surface. If you make it to the surface with the vic and they are in panic mode you are not positive and can quickly descend a few feet out of their line of sight (which means you basically don't exist in the eyes of a panicy diver) and come up behind them. Get ahold of the tank valve and wrap your legs around the tank to control the situation at that point.

That's basically my thinking. Thank you.

 

[michaelp68]

What all of you have said, so far, is what I've been thinking for the most part, and also the way my Rescue instructor has explained it. I appreciate your thoughts, and it's good to see that my own analysis is on-target.

What made me question myself is what I read in the Rescue book. I'm going to go back and check it tonight. Perhaps I read it incorrectly, but I thought it said something else.

I prefer to think through things for myself and receive input from others more experienced than me rather than blindly following something that doesn't add up for me.

After I double check the book, I'll let you know exactly what it says. I just don't want to misquote it right now.

Again, thank you.

Michael

 

[lorien]

I agree. Just one small reminder, do not add a ton of air to the victims BC, just enough to start them up slightly and remember the air will expand and make them more buoyant as you acend. As the "victim" in a simulated rescue situation last weekend my rescuer laid on the inflator hose and was not going to let up until I suddenly felt my ears telling me we were ascending too fast and I "regained" conciousness" and grabbed the inflator hose away from him, dumped some air and signaled them to slow the ascent. Then I lost conciousness again but I somehow managed to still dump air from my dry suit as we ascended as they did not take that into consideration.
Of course in a real rescue situation you are better getting them to the surface regardless but it is preferable to make a controlled ascent while keeping the reg in their mouth if it is still in. You will have to control both your ascent and theirs as you go up. Use their BC to start their ascent so if you lose them they are going to go up and not sink back down. But just a little air needs to be added as you will be swimming them up and they will become more buoynant as you ascend. Of course how much air you need to add depends on how negatively buoyant they are when you locate them. It can feel awkward trying to control them and yourself, just stay calm and think it thru and you will be fine.
And I also agree that you may need to be able to descend to get away from a panicked diver once on the surface however, if they were non-responsive underwater they will probably be unresponsive on the surface as well (unless they were in passive panic).

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

Have you considered controlling the buoyancy for you as well as the victim? If you can do this and *truly* control the ascent, there's a better chance you will maintain control of the victim (not become seperated)...

Are you suggesting controlling the ascent with both inflators?

I agree with the controlled ascent whole heartedly, I maintain that should be done using the victim's BC because in the event of separation (God Forbid. And having just found an unresponsive diver, the odds of lightning striking twice, etc) the diver will continue upward without assistance.

 

[lorien]

Are you suggesting controlling the ascent with both inflators?

No, just that depending on depth etc the rescuer may become somewhat more buoyant and it may need to be considered, etc.