How to answer "what is your highest certification level"?

[TMHeimer]

Yes, I realized that after I responded. Yet it seemed like my fixing it to ask if asking whether a rec cert taught more than was needed, in a thread on the highest cert, was maybe questioning how high can you go.

We've also been largely ignoring the GUE rec certs.

Yeah. This really is almost a thread about nothing anyway. Lots of apples to oranges.
Like, I would say a NAV cert. ranks higher than a Wreck or Night one because you have to know where you're going first. Others could give reasons to disagree and be just as correct.

 

[Diving Dubai]

From a Dive centre POV, assuming you're a stranger to me.

The separator is AOW - you're either AOW (thus not limited to 18m) or you're not.

Having Rescue, doesn't gain you any greater standing due to the vast majority of people, not keeping up with the skills nor First Responder post cert

I'm not anti MSD , purely because I know of quite a few people take specialities as a way to incentivise themselves to go diving. They're not club members don't have diving friends etc etc, but again they get grouped as AoW.

Pro level cards, if you're current that's good - being a Pro doesn't mean I'm giving you a less experienced diver (the complete opposite) but it's nice to know incase something bad happens and you need assistance. Hopefully the professional respect is two way

I'm also really interested in dive count, and as much info about your experience as I can glean out of you in the short time we interact when you're filling out paperwork, I will make a mental judgement base on cert level/dive count ratio, but happy to amend that judgement as the day progresses

As we get to gearing up, I have higher expectations of those with their own gear than those renting. If you're in your BP/W (extra points for a long hose), I'll make a note - if your in water skills don't meet my expectations then you'll be the subject of inter instructor anecdotal mockery over beers.

Please don't be *that* person, who for their own ego wants to trip up my 20 something staff by showing an obscure card, or the Trimix card for Nitrox. Yes we can run a check on the computer, but making our life difficult at the start of the day, doesn't win you points.

Yes. I do know what a BSAC Advanced diver is.

Tech cards, solo cards all welcome (you wouldn't get to go solo on your first dive) I will have higher expectations of your abilities

Your attitude on the boat and your competency in the water speaks way more than a card.

At the end of the day, after you've left, you'll be graded. Your customer cards will be marked then we can refer to them next time you visit with respect to buddy pairings and the amount of latitude we give you.

A red asterisk is bad - You're *that* person

 

[Edward3c]

Yes. I do know what a BSAC Advanced diver is.

I wasn't going to bring the equivalence up as the confusion that creates as its a bit too unique.

 

[Wibble]

From a Dive centre POV, assuming you're a stranger to me.

Tech cards, solo cards all welcome (you wouldn't get to go solo on your first dive) I will have higher expectations of your abilities

Your attitude on the boat and your competency in the water speaks way more than a card.

At the end of the day, after you've left, you'll be graded. Your customer cards will be marked then we can refer to them next time you visit with respect to buddy pairings and the amount of latitude we give you.

With a pocketful of cards, which ones should be shown? I'd generally show SDI Solo Diver and if nitrox is available I'll show my TDI Normoxic Trimix card, simply because both of these cards considerably trump the recreational cards in terms of evaluation and skill level. I'd have my Shearwater app on my phone, so can show several hundred dives on that as proof of experience. I do carry a Rescue Diver card, but have long since thrown out the beginner certifications. I don't object to an in-water assessment on the first dive.

I'll also make it clear that I'm not staff. I'm paying for the dive and expect to be able to slowly bimble around looking at the things that interest me away from the madding thong of the pack. If a 'buddy' is essential, then I expect one that is competent.

Is that reasonable in your experience?

 

[scubadada]

...At the end of the day, after you've left, you'll be graded. Your customer cards will be marked then we can refer to them next time you visit with respect to buddy pairings and the amount of latitude we give you.

A red asterisk is bad - You're *that* person

Hi @Diving Dubai

I've not heard of dive centers grading and recording the grade for future use. Do you think many other centers do this? Besides the asterisk for "that" diver, what other grades do you give? Do you modify the grade based on additional observation? Can you advance from an * to something passing?

When I find an operation I like, I am usually a repeat customer. It does not take much time to get to know the staff by name and vice versa. They may know my grade, I know theirs too

 

[Diving Dubai]

Is that reasonable in your experience?

Good example, Let's go through it step by step on a standard day

1. It's 08:00 I have 30 divers to check in and get them onto the 3 boats for 09:30. We know the split between AoW and OW, so we can load teh boats accordingly. We know the weather, tides etc so have a broad choice of which site options we have (final decision TDB) Some people will be returning guests, and know the drill, some will be mid course, some will be day divers, some will be starting their course and not yet met their instructor

2. You're booked for a 2 tank dive, and turn up before it gets too busy.

I'd generally show SDI Solo Diver and if nitrox is available I'll show my TDI Normoxic Trimix card, simply because both of these cards considerably trump the recreational cards in terms of evaluation and skill level.

Normoxic Trimix card - has no additional value to us (not a tech dive) The young person checking you in may or maynot know that Trimix means you're Nitrox certified . That person might not be a diver (not all diver centre staff are), So your presenting that card might just cause them to need to ask.

Assume though it's me, my initial thoughts are either you're trying to demonstrate you have some experience or you're showing off - too early to tell (only 2 coffees at that point) SDI Solo get you a mental grade of Basic Tech or DM/DL, in that you *should* be fairly competent. Decent Dive count ratioed with qualifications (i.e not a bunch of cards with limited dives).

At this point I'll put you as "experienced"

'll also make it clear that I'm not staff.

This is just going to rub me up the wrong way. We don't know you so why do you even think we'd entrust you with a customer? You've yet to prove yourself.

expect to be able to slowly bimble around looking at the things that interest me away from the madding thong of the pack.

While we have staff in the water (all instructors - maybe a DM in training) It's buddy diving. We're not guiding you, but you are our responsibility so you'll have eyes on you. We're happily there pointing stuff out to those that want to see, others do their own thing

If a 'buddy' is essential, then I expect one that is competent

This is always THE most difficult. I can't let you solo until I'm comfortable with your competency - to be clear this isn't about the worry that if there's an issue we'll get sued (you cant' in the UAE) but if there is an issue, I go to jail why they investigate the matter - Jail here aren't as luxurious as those in the West.

The main part is I can only choose you a buddy out of the selection I have of people going spare. We try our best. IF there is a significant mismatch maybe a staff member will buddy you, or maybe one of our regular maco photographers may allow you to dive with them as long as YOU are competent (in their eyes)

Buddy matching is without doubt the hardest thing a dive centre has to do, and while it's not ideal to buddy 2 divers of disproportionate experience, sometimes it's unavoidable given the divers registered.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Hi @Diving Dubai

I've not heard of dive centers grading and recording the grade for future use. Do you think many other centers do this? Besides the asterisk for "that" diver, what other grades do you give? Do you modify the grade based on additional observation? Can you advance from an * to something passing?

When I find an operation I like, I am usually a repeat customer. It does not take much time to get to know the staff by name and vice versa. They may know my grade, I know theirs too

I'm sure many Many dive centres do this, and yes, of course it's possible to improve (as well as tank) your score (we use a simple 3 score) And sure with repeat customers you all get to know each other and their foibles.

As long as customers are competent and low maintenance everything is good and fun for everyone

Those whose claimed skills and experience aren't matched by real life observations are the worst. And yes, I've seen first hand people who on paper should be good, but in the water are selfish and incompetent.

It's a balancing act, you have take what people say at face value while maintaining a level of caution

 

[TMHeimer]

From a Dive centre POV, assuming you're a stranger to me.

The separator is AOW - you're either AOW (thus not limited to 18m) or you're not.

Having Rescue, doesn't gain you any greater standing due to the vast majority of people, not keeping up with the skills nor First Responder post cert

I'm not anti MSD , purely because I know of quite a few people take specialities as a way to incentivise themselves to go diving. They're not club members don't have diving friends etc etc, but again they get grouped as AoW.

Pro level cards, if you're current that's good - being a Pro doesn't mean I'm giving you a less experienced diver (the complete opposite) but it's nice to know incase something bad happens and you need assistance. Hopefully the professional respect is two way

I'm also really interested in dive count, and as much info about your experience as I can glean out of you in the short time we interact when you're filling out paperwork, I will make a mental judgement base on cert level/dive count ratio, but happy to amend that judgement as the day progresses

As we get to gearing up, I have higher expectations of those with their own gear than those renting. If you're in your BP/W (extra points for a long hose), I'll make a note - if your in water skills don't meet my expectations then you'll be the subject of inter instructor anecdotal mockery over beers.

Please don't be *that* person, who for their own ego wants to trip up my 20 something staff by showing an obscure card, or the Trimix card for Nitrox. Yes we can run a check on the computer, but making our life difficult at the start of the day, doesn't win you points.

Yes. I do know what a BSAC Advanced diver is.

Tech cards, solo cards all welcome (you wouldn't get to go solo on your first dive) I will have higher expectations of your abilities

Your attitude on the boat and your competency in the water speaks way more than a card.

At the end of the day, after you've left, you'll be graded. Your customer cards will be marked then we can refer to them next time you visit with respect to buddy pairings and the amount of latitude we give you.

A red asterisk is bad - You're *that* person

Excellent post showing why ranking certs. can be futile. Like my Wreck card when I have never penetrated, or my Night one when I have done exactly one night dive (which was actually before I took the course....). Or Rescue divers who never practice or even review the stuff. Or CPR cards-- my pet peeve in that even if you take a refresher every 2 years it means next to nothing if you do nothing to review in between.

 

[Wibble]

The reason for the "I'm not staff" comment is through previously being instabuddied with divers that need handholding. This ruins my dive as I need to keep an eye on the buddy, which is a serious commitment.

Good point about the photographers. That's pretty much what I'd like to be treated as, even if I've not got a massive camera rig.

 

[tep]

Two certifications required for PADI master diver are AOW and Rescue; those are the ones that carry more weight IMO than the 5 specialties and a dive op should know that.

Same for SSI - I wanted Rescue as I was diving with newbie family divers and wanted the skills. I did Deep, Nav, and coupla others and I got a Master card in the mail completely unexpected.

But when asked? AOW and Nitrox.