How to answer "what is your highest certification level"?

[MarkA]

There are other agencies who use the more traditional meaning of "advanced" -- a much higher standard. BSAC is well beyond DiveMaster for example, maybe NAUI too.

Looking at my BSAC qualification record book, on the Advanced Diver page. It says:-
(Equivalent to CMAS Three Star Diver)
Formerly known as BSAC Second Class Diver
This is far more descriptive as it’s obviously above third class and below first class.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

AOW means you did 5 dives with an insturctor after OW, including a "deep" dive and a "use your compass to swim in a straight line for 20 kicks and return to me" dive.

Rescue means you actually spent a few days learning and demonstrating what hopefully will never become required skills. But they still likely make you a better diver.

OMMOHY

Using a compass for only 20 kicks doesn't even get a diver out of the line of visibility in some areas (not mine, however, where 2 kicks will do that). But that tells you almost nothing about the ability to use a compass underwater. In the U.S. Navy School for Underwater Swimmers, we had to do underwater swims of 500, 1,000, and 2,000 yards in open water toward a flag on the beach. Some of those divers ended up having to be picked up because they were headed for Cuba rather than the Key West beach. But 20 kicks says virtually nothing about the ability to use a compass underwater.

SeaRat

 

[JMarc]

In the U.S. Navy School for Underwater Swimmers, we had to do underwater swims of 500, 1,000, and 2,000 yards in open water toward a flag on the beach

That seems at the total opposite of the spectrum. I'm pretty sure that I've one-hour dives where I didn't move 500 yards. I don't think I've any dive where I moved 2000 yards.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

Using a compass for only 20 kicks doesn't even get a diver out of the line of visibility in some areas (not mine, however, where 2 kicks will do that). But that tells you almost nothing about the ability to use a compass underwater. In the U.S. Navy School for Underwater Swimmers, we had to do underwater swims of 500, 1,000, and 2,000 yards in open water toward a flag on the beach. Some of those divers ended up having to be picked up because they were headed for Cuba rather than the Key West beach. But 20 kicks says virtually nothing about the ability to use a compass underwater.

SeaRat

Not sure which agency, but the nav dive in AOW in PADI includes swimming a square, swimming a compass out and back, and swimming a landscape-guided out and back of some kind (i.e., without compass). (There's also a count your kick cycles for 100' measured distance.)

The lengths of all of these is up to instructor discretion to some degree. I can take students to sites with few visual cues and vis of 15' being a good day and if they can't effectively navigate they'll not hit the starting target....

 

[tursiops]

The lengths of all of these is up to instructor discretion to some degree.

True, but the square is recommended as 100 ft on a side.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

True, but the square is recommended as 100 ft on a side.

Yup.

 

[boulderjohn]

My experience of PADI Rescue was a massively harder course than the AOW with lots more in-water time and generally being pushed hard. My AOW was an utter walk in the park in comparison.

The question I answered was which of the two courses teaches more about diving, not which one is harder.

The high point of the rescue course, the hardest part for people, is the rescue secenario where you give rescue breaths to an unconscious diver while simultaneously towing the diver to a location and removing the victim's gear and your gear. That is indeed hard. What do you learn about diving while doing it? The vast majority of what you learn in the rescue course is done on the surface.

Advanced... Yeah, the PADI (and other copiers) agency dumbing down and re-defining what "Advanced" means. Kind of like writing to a 1st grader. Rescue was like being in 5th grade(?).

As I regularly say, what specifically did PADI do to the advanced course to dumb it down? (Remember that PADI did not invent the course or its name.)

 

[Rogerdd]

Others answered this (in most agencies AOW is a prerequisite to Rescue).



I act as a DSO where I work, and NAUI allowing Rescue prior to AOW is throwing a few of me and folks at other similar employers for a loop. I think the consensus is that if you don't have AOW, we'll be taking a lot closer look at your dive logs before releasing you to dive.

So you’re saying that if someone is showing you a NAUI Rescue cert, you will be checking if they have AOW too as well.

But if it’s a Rescue cert from another agency you would not do that extra check?

 

[Wibble]

Your experience with AOW is unfortunate, is not typical. and is likely due to the instructor, not the course per se.

I would expect it's a common experience in a holiday resort where they're "piling it high and selling it cheap" to people on a strict timetable.

Diving in warm, clear, shallow (as in 20m/66ft), non-tidal water on reefs barely compares with cold, low visibility, tidal, high current, dark and deeper diving (as in 30m/100ft) on wrecks.

 

[boulderjohn]

I would expect it's a common experience in a holiday resort where they're "piling it high and selling it cheap" to people on a strict timetable.

AOW academic work takes very little time. Then the divers do 5 dives, which they would do anyway. Doing a solid AOW course in a holiday reort does not impact any timelines. I did my AOW long ago in Cozumel, and I had a great experience there.

Diving in warm, clear, shallow (as in 20m/66ft), non-tidal water on reefs barely compares with cold, low visibility, tidal, high current, dark and deeper diving (as in 30m/100ft) on wrecks.

As much as you like to mock warm, non-tidal reef diving, that is what the overwhelming majoirty of divers will do world-wide throughout their diving lives. Why should they train for something they will never do?