How to answer "what is your highest certification level"?

[Wibble]

Was nice to get a banked 12/55 top off last week. Needed about 240 litres at 5p = £12/€14/$15

OC would be, say, 3000 litres = £150/€170/$180

 

[mdwalter]

Most often when diving with a new dive operator or even the same dive operator with a new/different crew you will be asked a few questions such as when was your last dive, have you dived in cold water, how many dives and what is your highest certification level.

I can easily tell the op when my last dive was, how many and if I have cold water experience.

I don't know the answer to the last question because I don't know how different certifications are ranked. I am guessing that OW is the lowest, AOW next, Rescue next. Where do the other certifications rank? If asked does does Solo/Self reliant rank higher? How about Deep or Wreck or Cave, Nitrox, drysuit, etc?

I tend to disclose my certification levels based on the operator's stated minimum requirements for the dive. For example, if it's a boat trip to a wreck at 120 FSW, and they state you must be AOW and Nitrox certified, I'll tell them about my NAUI Master Diver and TDI Adv. Nitrox / Deco Proc. certs (both one step beyond their minimal requirements). For this dive, they neither need nor care to know about my Full Cave, Trimix 1, Advanced Sidemount for Cave, or Rebreather MOD1 certs (nor any intermediate certs I may hold), and this may just confuse or bewilder them.
As for number of dives and recency, I have not logged any dives on paper or electronically in about 20 years, so I can't give an accurate number of lifetime total dives. So I usually try to just give an educated guess on a relevant statistic like "100 dives... this calendar year" or "200 dives in the last year" or "around 1000 total dives in conditions like we expect today" Sometimes, if they seem especially interested in when my last dive was, I take great joy in giving the truthful answer of "yesterday" or "last Sunday" This is especially fun in mid-February when they don't expect it.
One of my favorites is when the waiver or other form has some very specific questions like OW cert date, AOW cert date, date of last dive. I get to answer 12 June 2001, 10 July 2001, and yesterday, which tells them nothing about actual experience. For all they know I did 4 dives to get OW certified and a couple more for AOW, 22 years ago, then rented some gear and did one dive yesterday. Or, maybe I have thousands of dives and a dozen advanced certifications over these years and yesterday I did a 4 hour rebreather + DPV dive on 15/55 mix to 250 feet or whatever. It cracks me up.

 

[Blackcrusader]

If I want nitrox, I show a nitrox card. I suppose if a shop insisted on Deep Diver for a dive, I'd try to pass off my Deep Diver Instructor card.

Funny thing at a dive OP when asked for my deep diver card for a 35m dive. I asked them to show me the guides deep diver certs. Same for instructors. Oh they replied we don't have those certs ourselves. My reply was that PADI OW can dive to recreational limits. 40m. No they cannot they reply. I say ok outside of training show me were an OW diver cannot go deeper than 18m or 30m. They could not. They just said don't tell other divers we are trying to sell them deep dive courses.

 

[Pipehorse]

Funny thing at a dive OP when asked for my deep diver card for a 35m dive. I asked them to show me the guides deep diver certs. Same for instructors. Oh they replied we don't have those certs ourselves. My reply was that PADI OW can dive to recreational limits. 40m. No they cannot they reply. I say ok outside of training show me were an OW diver cannot go deeper than 18m or 30m. They could not. They just said don't tell other divers we are trying to sell them deep dive courses.

This does not make sense. You asked to see the "Deep Dive" certs of DM's and Inst's, and the reply was they don't have any. Then, they say "we are trying to sell them deep dive courses". How can they teach deep dive courses if they don't have the certs to do so?

 

[boulderjohn]

This does not make sense. You asked to see the "Deep Dive" certs of DM's and Inst's, and the reply was they don't have any. Then, they say "we are trying to sell them deep dive courses". How can they teach deep dive courses if they don't have the certs to do so?

They can't.

If the DM is certified, then the DM at least has deep diver qualifications--it's part of the certification process (at least for PADI). An instructor certainly has to have them. In many (and probably most) operations around the world,the DM is actually an instructor. In the case of an operator I used to use regularly in Florida, one of the DMs for the dives was also their resident tech instructor.

However, if you are working with a sleazier operation, the DM many not even be certified. In that case, the DM will not be insured, either.

 

[TMHeimer]

They can't.

If the DM is certified, then the DM at least has deep diver qualifications--it's part of the certification process (at least for PADI). An instructor certainly has to have them. In many (and probably most) operations around the world,the DM is actually an instructor. In the case of an operator I used to use regularly in Florida, one of the DMs for the dives was also their resident tech instructor.

However, if you are working with a sleazier operation, the DM many not even be certified. In that case, the DM will not be insured, either.

I know when the PADI DM course was changed in 2010 they added a Deep component. What exactly do they do? Is it as "in depth" (ie. 3 deep dives) as the Deep Course itself?

 

[boulderjohn]

I know when the PADI DM course was changed in 2010 they added a Deep component. What exactly do they do? Is it as "in depth" (ie. 3 deep dives) as the Deep Course itself?

It does not have three dives, but it includes some of the key requirements while deep.

I think a lot of shops in America and around the world have the same problem with the certifications for AOW, Deep, and DM--no local access to appropriate deep sites. Colorado is one of those places. Colorado has one of the largest per capita dive populations in the nation, but the overwhelming majority of divers with AOW certifications got them on vacations in tropical realms. Some people do the deep dive for AOW in Homestead Crater in Utah, which at 65 feet barely meets the minimum depth and to my mind is not deep enough to accomplish the chief goals of deep dive training. Some go to the Blue Hole in New Mexico, where you can at least hit 85 feet. I have heard that some shops claim to use altitude adjustments to get certified in Aurora reservoir, but to me that is absurd.

A few years ago a new DM working for a shop in Arkansas started a thread because he was troubled by his shop's contention that their AOW students had been excused from the deep dive because of the lack of local appropriate sites. He said they tell AOW students that when they get surveyed by PADI, they are officially allowed to lie on the survey form, and they tell the students how to make that response. I immediately contacted the Arkansas regional representative for PADI, and he said that absolutely no one anywhere in the world has permission to skip the deep dive, and he wanted to know the name of the shop. I contacted the OP, but he was afraid that he would be identified as the whistleblower and fired, so he wouldn't tell.

When I was working for my previous shop, I took all the DM candidates to Rock Lake in New Mexico, where we could do true deep dives, but I don't know if any of the other regional shops did that.

 

[TMHeimer]

It does not have three dives, but it includes some of the key requirements while deep.

I think a lot of shops in America and around the world have the same problem with the certifications for AOW, Deep, and DM--no local access to appropriate deep sites. Colorado is one of those places. Colorado has one of the largest per capita dive populations in the nation, but the overwhelming majority of divers with AOW certifications got them on vacations in tropical realms. Some people do the deep dive for AOW in Homestead Crater in Utah, which at 65 feet barely meets the minimum depth and to my mind is not deep enough to accomplish the chief goals of deep dive training. Some go to the Blue Hole in New Mexico, where you can at least hit 85 feet. I have heard that some shops claim to use altitude adjustments to get certified in Aurora reservoir, but to me that is absurd.

A few years ago a new DM working for a shop in Arkansas started a thread because he was troubled by his shop's contention that their AOW students had been excused from the deep dive because of the lack of local appropriate sites. He said they tell AOW students that when they get surveyed by PADI, they are officially allowed to lie on the survey form, and they tell the students how to make that response. I immediately contacted the Arkansas regional representative for PADI, and he said that absolutely no one anywhere in the world has permission to skip the deep dive, and he wanted to know the name of the shop. I contacted the OP, but he was afraid that he would be identified as the whistleblower and fired, so he wouldn't tell.

When I was working for my previous shop, I took all the DM candidates to Rock Lake in New Mexico, where we could do true deep dives, but I don't know if any of the other regional shops did that.

I can see how you could really do pretty much all the Deep course stuff on one dive-- I recall the 2nd & 3rd dives when I took Deep were basically go deep and watch your air (Nitrox 29) & bottom time & beware of possible narcosis.
Anyway, leave it to someone to tell students to lie to beat the system...

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Well, when asked I could show my LA County SCUBA certification card from 1963 (Instructor, Roy France), or my NAUI Instructor card from 1973. Or, I could talk about my certification as a Navy diver through the U.S. Naval School for Undertwater Swimmers, in 1967. That school was intense, and took me 3 weeks to complete. Or, I could talk about my USAF Pararescue Transition School, where we again had to prove ourselves in several months, including both surface swims, scuba dives, and parascuba jumps out of the HC-130 Hercules aircraft. But my LDS knows me, and hasn't asked.

SeaRat

 

[Blackcrusader]

However, if you are working with a sleazier operation, the DM many not even be certified. In that case, the DM will not be insured, either.

I have dived with guides in Asia that only have PADI rescue. I have dived with those doing their training as DM's as well.
Although we are asked as customers to provide our certs when did a customer ever get shown the cert of their guide?
Doing a deep dive as part of a DM course is not the same as having a deep dive certification. A dive buddy of mine was on a LOB in Egypt last year. the LOB would not let him use his PADI instructor cert to do a deep dive. He never did a deep dive cert with PADI.

He does have the TDI ANDP showing trained level to 45m so they let him join the deep dive with that.