How serious a screw-up was this?

[shake-and-bake]

That rates somewhere around a "zero" on my screw-up-o-meter.

Right before I walk/roll/fall off the side of the boat, the very last thing I do is breathe off both my regs, check my computer, inflate my BC and make sure it actually holds air.

If I don't have air or can't float, it's 100% my fault.

If an operator represents to its clients that it will set-up their gear in dive-ready condition, including turning on the air, knows those clients (however foolishly) may expect and rely upon them to do so, knows that if it fails to do what it promised to do a diver may go into the water without air, yet fails to perform the most critical step of the duty it has taken upon itself to perform, I can't see how it's contribution to the fact that a diver is in the water without air can ever be considered "zero." Its responsibility may be greatly outweighed by the diver's stupidity, but it ain't zero.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

It's a 4, because it's at the surface thing and happened near one or more professionals with skills to correct. The big sanger is sinking if overweighted unless the diver has the presence of mind to orally inflate the bcd. That doesn't mean its ok though. When you pay money for day boat and the crew sets up yor gear, air should be turned on. ALSO, the diver should check by his own air by breathing his reguilator and inflate/deflating the bcd. Also, part of a buddy check (even on a charter boat) is being sure each other's air is on.
DivemasterDennis

 

[flots am]

I can't see how it's contribution to the fact that a diver is in the water without air can ever be considered "zero." Its responsibility may be greatly outweighed by the diver's stupidity, but it ain't zero.

It's zero because the only way it can happen is if the diver completely ignores training and fails to check his own air supply.

flots.

 

[Tortuga68]

My instructor who has 40 years and thousands of dives experience put his tank strap on a little bit off-level, and the tank came lose. I caught it in the buddy check. It wasn't truly an error because we did the buddy check and caught it. Imagine what would have happened if his tank had come loose at 100 ft with only me, the student, to help?

This shouldn't be a big deal... doff your BC, refit the tank, tighten the cam band, put your BC back on. Your instructor would have demo'd doff & don to OW students, I expect he can manage it himself

I've never had my tank come loose, but I have adjusted the tank height on rental gear when the first stage was whacking me int he head using the same method - and I've helped more than a few divers refit their tanks when they've come loose because the didn't wet the cam band. It should be disasterous let alone fatal, assuming there aren't any simultaneous issues and people remember their training. Certainly not for someone with 40 years experience diving

Imagine making a negative entry (start diving down after entry without resurfacing due to rough conditions)... then you're screwed... or at least you'll have to surface again ;-)

Not necessarily, most people should be able to reach their own tank valve and turn it on, if they have the experience, presence of mind & confidence to do so in that situation

 

[Diver0001]

I'm a pretty new diver. Last month, after several shore dives in Monterey, I took my first warm water, boat diving trip. Everything went great for me; I had a fantastic time. On the last day we were joined by two guys who obviously were great pals and highly experienced divers. The dive shop set up our gear; we just got into our BC's and rolled backwards off the side of the boat. After the last dive, I learned that they had sent one of the pals over the side without turning on his air. He joked about it ("That was a tip buster!") but there was a little edge to his jokes. I'm sure he and his buddy (and the DM) had enough experience to solve the problem quickly, but I imagine that could be a serious issue with someone inexperienced and/or prone to panic. So how would that rate on a scale of one (no big deal, this sort of thing happens all the time in scuba) to ten (shocking negligence, dive shop shoud be reported)?

It's not uncommon but you can't rate it like you want to. One person will simply reach back and turn the tank on and another person will panic and drown from the same event. In one case it's no big deal, in ther other it's a disaster.

This obviously shouldn't happen, which is why every single scuba diver is trained to do buddy checks. Clearly the "pals" didn't and probably won't start because of this.

R..

R..

 

[yarik83]

I do not see how it was dive boat's fault that air was turned off?! Every single diver is trained to check their own gear. Buddies are required to doublecheck. Divers are required to tripple check before entering water.

You can not breathe out of your regulator when air is not flowing. When diver jumps into water... he or she should have regulator in their mouth and breathing. BCD should always be inflated so that diver can wait for other divers in group before descending as a group.

 

[Tortuga68]

When diver jumps into water... he or she should have regulator in their mouth and breathing. BCD should always be inflated so that diver can wait for other divers in group before descending as a group

Not "always"... some times you need to do a negative entry (eg high current sites) & it's not always a good practice to breathe your reg out of the water (eg ice diving). Different circumstances can dictate different entry procedures

 

[tomfcrist]

While i agree that it is the divers responsibility to check his/her gear before a dive and do buddy checks, I dont get why so many people are saying the DM/Operator did nothing wrong. It is the DM's DUTY(LEGAL OBLIGATION) to ensure the safety to the best of his abilitys of all divers under his care. The DM is supposed to be everyones buddy, and catch all the dumb mistakes that divers make BEFORE the dive......IT IS HIS MOST IMPORTANT JOB WHILE THE VESSEL IS UNDERWAY!!!

Quite frankly If the diver in question had been injured and his family would have sued, the operator wouldnt have a buisiness anymore and the DM would have a hard time finding insurance EVER again. How does a DM get so complacent that he doesnt even check a divers air before they splash.

Once again, Im not alleviating the diver of his/her responsibilitys but you cant sit around here and say the DM made no mistake at all.

 

[TSandM]

The DM is supposed to be everyones buddy, and catch all the dumb mistakes that divers make BEFORE the dive.

Well, here is the crux of the matter. Not everyone views the role of the DM in this way. Many of us feel that it is the diver's responsibility to do what is necessary to ensure his own safety. And there is no way that anyone can be "everyones buddy".

 

[String]

After the last dive, I learned that they had sent one of the pals over the side without turning on his air. He joked about it ("That was a tip buster!") but there was a little edge to his jokes. I'm sure he and his buddy (and the DM) had enough experience to solve the problem quickly, but I imagine that could be a serious issue with someone inexperienced and/or prone to panic. So how would that rate on a scale of one (no big deal, this sort of thing happens all the time in scuba) to ten (shocking negligence, dive shop shoud be reported)?

Nothing to do with the dive shop at all. Its not their job. Its entirely the problem if the diver that rolled in. If he's too stupid to turn his own air on AND skip a buddy check or even a personal breathing check they guy does not have the correct attitude to be diving at all. If you're a supposed *qualified diver* its entirely your fault if that happens not the operator.

I dont WANT anyone touching my valve - i check it myself, i check my equipment myself. If you touch it after that it means i now have to check it again. Why would you want to trust a random 3rd party with something like that?