How old is "vintage" gear?
- Thread starter DebbyDiver
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Some time back it was discussed on the actual vintage boards and as well within NAVED a definition of vintage era, I am not the inventor of that date, it just came to be more or less. I believe that was the time frame of consensus. I believe the RAM was gone in 73, the shop I worked in certainly had none in 74 or 75. But really it does not matter, there is no one specific thing that brings the era to an end, certainly cessation of manufacturing double hose regulators by all of the major players and in particular USD (excluding Nemrod) in the early 70s, widespread adoption of power inflators, spgs and jacket BCs began to proliferate as did the use of octopus rigs etc. Those things are not of the methods and equipment widely considered to distinguish vintage era from the plastic era. If 75, why not 76, or 86, maybe 96. Like the muscle car era, the end date is not set in stone but it did end, perhaps with the introduction of the Pinto and Vega
. Did the Flower Power Era end with Woodstock as the hippies all walked out of the fields half stoned and hung over, did "free love" end with the discovery of AIDS and on exactly what day did the medical community admit there was an actual disease? Did the dinosaurs all roll over dead on the same day, the KT Boundary represents more than a few days in time? I don't know an answer to your question beyond I know vintage when I see it and largely 75 was not vintage but if it makes you happy to call it 75 to include some piece of favorite equipment you have, be my guest. Dive what you got, it is all good if you enjoy it, nobody will take your secret decoder ring away.N
This subject again… 
Here are a few interesting points:
Dacor had double hose regulators well all the way into 79 (I am not sure if that was the last year). Actually one ironic observation is to see the Dacor DH on the same catalog page as their octopus (which the DH could not accommodate).
Other manufacturers that continue to build DH into late 70 and beyond: Nemrod and Spirotechnique. Actually it is possible that the only manufacturer that discontinued making DH and was still in business in the late 70’s might have been USD. Most of the other manufacturers of DH regulators were just out of business or going out of business: Healthways, Sportways, Voit, and many of the Europeans.
So the truth is that a lot is being based on only one manufacturer of DH regulator. It is for sure the most used and IMO the most important of the manufacturers of DH regulators, but I find it funny that many of these discussions tend to forget about the rest of the DH regulators (and the rest of the world).
I know the SPG was around in the 50’s, but I am not sure when it became very popular. I do know that by 1971 it was the standard in the Caribbean (and we were normally behind the times). By the time I started working at DSC in Puerto Rico, no one gave it any thought about diving without an SPG. My buddy and I were the only ones (that I am aware of) that would occasionally dive without an SPG in order to dive our Royal Aqua Master.
Yes, the inflator and octopus didn’t become popular until mid to late 70’s (the inflator became popular before the octopus), but the alternate air source on a pony bottle was actually very popular among wreck diver on the north east in the mid 60’s. Pallets of oxygen bottles were being sold and marketed as pony bottles by a number of dive shops in the NE at the time (the term “pony bottle” was probably not in existence at the time).
Flotation devices are another interesting subject. The discrepancy between the time period of there existence and there popularity make it even more confusing to accept when they were around.
Mae West and other flotation devices were around since the 50’s
The Fenzy was around since 1961 (in the US since about 1968).
Scubapro BC jacket 1971.
Also power inflator 1971.
Watergill At Pack wing BC (with weight integrated, inflator, etc) 1972
I believe that Watergill also had an instrument console around 1972.
Just a few facts (or at least as factual as can easily find) to muddy up the subject.
Here are a few interesting points:
Dacor had double hose regulators well all the way into 79 (I am not sure if that was the last year). Actually one ironic observation is to see the Dacor DH on the same catalog page as their octopus (which the DH could not accommodate).
Other manufacturers that continue to build DH into late 70 and beyond: Nemrod and Spirotechnique. Actually it is possible that the only manufacturer that discontinued making DH and was still in business in the late 70’s might have been USD. Most of the other manufacturers of DH regulators were just out of business or going out of business: Healthways, Sportways, Voit, and many of the Europeans.
So the truth is that a lot is being based on only one manufacturer of DH regulator. It is for sure the most used and IMO the most important of the manufacturers of DH regulators, but I find it funny that many of these discussions tend to forget about the rest of the DH regulators (and the rest of the world).
I know the SPG was around in the 50’s, but I am not sure when it became very popular. I do know that by 1971 it was the standard in the Caribbean (and we were normally behind the times). By the time I started working at DSC in Puerto Rico, no one gave it any thought about diving without an SPG. My buddy and I were the only ones (that I am aware of) that would occasionally dive without an SPG in order to dive our Royal Aqua Master.
Yes, the inflator and octopus didn’t become popular until mid to late 70’s (the inflator became popular before the octopus), but the alternate air source on a pony bottle was actually very popular among wreck diver on the north east in the mid 60’s. Pallets of oxygen bottles were being sold and marketed as pony bottles by a number of dive shops in the NE at the time (the term “pony bottle” was probably not in existence at the time).
Flotation devices are another interesting subject. The discrepancy between the time period of there existence and there popularity make it even more confusing to accept when they were around.
Mae West and other flotation devices were around since the 50’s
The Fenzy was around since 1961 (in the US since about 1968).
Scubapro BC jacket 1971.
Also power inflator 1971.
Watergill At Pack wing BC (with weight integrated, inflator, etc) 1972
I believe that Watergill also had an instrument console around 1972.
Just a few facts (or at least as factual as can easily find) to muddy up the subject.
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That is all true Luis and none of it is in my early Basic Scuba or the New Science until late editions. No Luis, your wings and brand new frameless masks are not vintage. Sorry. a double hose alone is not vintage.
Howabout pre-BC.
Luis,, you always try to argue the one and not the many. What a few people did or used is not relevant to the discussion of what was mainstream. I don't think the end of the era is linked to the USD demise of double hose but to a basic shift in methods, training, equipment and techniques that began in or about the early 70s.
I saw a guy using an octo in my first scuba outing in 1966, it was about 10 years before I saw another. He was not mainstream and your lime green weight belt is not either
but of course, as you know, like yourself I more often dive eclectic than purely vintage.
Hey, I am on a bicycle forum, if you think we have a problem identifying vintage, those guys get downright mean about it.
Luis in his eclectic rig with his better half, non vintage:
My wife makes no pretensions of being vintage:
Now we are talking vintage:
Maybe we should develop a card with picutres of vintage and non vintage divers, like a fish ID card so you guys can tell when you are in vintage compliance,.
Howabout pre-BC.
Luis,
, you always try to argue the one and not the many. What a few people did or used is not relevant to the discussion of what was mainstream. I don't think the end of the era is linked to the USD demise of double hose but to a basic shift in methods, training, equipment and techniques that began in or about the early 70s. I saw a guy using an octo in my first scuba outing in 1966, it was about 10 years before I saw another. He was not mainstream and your lime green weight belt is not either
but of course, as you know, like yourself I more often dive eclectic than purely vintage.Hey, I am on a bicycle forum, if you think we have a problem identifying vintage, those guys get downright mean about it.
Luis in his eclectic rig with his better half, non vintage:
My wife makes no pretensions of being vintage:
Now we are talking vintage:
Maybe we should develop a card with picutres of vintage and non vintage divers, like a fish ID card so you guys can tell when you are in vintage compliance,
.
Paladin
Contributor
Can't we all just get along?
OP
I'm loving this thread and I'm not sorry I started it!!!
I remember my dad's gear, and he talked about it when I was older and a diver myself. His tank was an old fire extinguisher. He claims his regulator was single hose but I know from how old I was when he dove that it was late 1950's to early 1960's that he was diving. He had blue Voit duck fins and a black oval mask with a metal frame with a screw on top, and a simple skinny black snorkel. He claimed that my mother made his wetsuit by his lying on a sheet of rubber, she cut around him and glued it together.
I was certified in 1980 and I remember that some people had horsecollar BCs with crotch straps but others used snorkeling vests. I had an SPG but no depth guage at first (I bought a capillary guage soon after) and no octopus. I remember arguing with friends that jacket-style BCs would be a passing fad. I also remember the shop I taught for in the 1980's capping off the CO2 inflation devices (with screws I think?) to prevent accidents. I learned to buddy breathe in my own class but we had octopus by the time I became an instructor, so I taught both skills.
While those of you in this forum would laugh at my pink TUSA fins with blue spring straps, I love 'em. My fins are highly visible night or day and I do love my spring straps, even though they clash.
I remember my dad's gear, and he talked about it when I was older and a diver myself. His tank was an old fire extinguisher. He claims his regulator was single hose but I know from how old I was when he dove that it was late 1950's to early 1960's that he was diving. He had blue Voit duck fins and a black oval mask with a metal frame with a screw on top, and a simple skinny black snorkel. He claimed that my mother made his wetsuit by his lying on a sheet of rubber, she cut around him and glued it together.
I was certified in 1980 and I remember that some people had horsecollar BCs with crotch straps but others used snorkeling vests. I had an SPG but no depth guage at first (I bought a capillary guage soon after) and no octopus. I remember arguing with friends that jacket-style BCs would be a passing fad. I also remember the shop I taught for in the 1980's capping off the CO2 inflation devices (with screws I think?) to prevent accidents. I learned to buddy breathe in my own class but we had octopus by the time I became an instructor, so I taught both skills.
While those of you in this forum would laugh at my pink TUSA fins with blue spring straps, I love 'em. My fins are highly visible night or day and I do love my spring straps, even though they clash.
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Now we are talking vintage:
That kid is "frog-kicking"...
that is not vintage
I never claim to "dive vintage". I just dive whatever vintage gear I feel like (I did use a horse-collar part of that week, but I always disliked oval masks). After all it wasn't vintage when I started diving... it was just my dive gear.
BTW Paladin
We do get along.
Paladin
Contributor
I know that, Luis. I was just being facetious.
scubapro50
Contributor
If the equipment says Voit, Sportways, Nemrod, Healthways, White Stag or Parkways there is a good chance it's vintage gear.........
Can't we all just get along?
We are hardly being fractious, Luis is the MAN! The scuba El Senor Luis :cool2:.
I have often said I am not a vintage diver, I like to use what works. But obviously we all appreciate vintage gear and the historical aspects.
N
