How often do most shops in your area require Nitrox tanks to be O2 cleaned?

[JessH]

My understanding of the situation was that most places require a tank to be re-02 cleaned at hydro time. That being my expectation I stopped in an Austin area shop the other day to get my Nitrox tanks visualed and they said that if I wanted to keep using them for Nitrox they would have to be 02 cleaned again, and that this was required at every visual inspection. They also wanted $75/tank for said cleaning in addition to the $20/tank for the visual. Probably would have charged me for a Nitrox fill on top of that the way the conversation was going.....

So I left and tried another shop just up the street and they agreed with me that as long as a tank hasn't been used with non hyperfiltered air it only needed to be 02 cleaned at hydro time. So in the end for 2 tanks I am paying $45 compared to the other shop that wanted to charge me $190+

I understand that this issue isn't an exact science, and I can see how requiring yearly cleaning would be beneficial to the shop employees safety if they don't trust their customers to not fill their nitrox tanks full of dirty air, but my understanding was that the common practice is that of the later shop and not the one that wants a yearly O2 cleaning. So, does anyone know of any other shops requiring the yearly cleaning or are most being a little more reasonable about it?

At the first shop I was also told that since my tanks were steel they would be full of rust so they would definitely need to be O2 cleaned..... I know for a fact that they aren't full of rust and besides it is my understanding that a light coat of surface rust is perfectly acceptable in a steel tank even when used for pure O2 service....

~Jess

 

[Lake Travis Scuba]

Here is a link to Luxfer web site FAQ about O2 cleaning: Luxfer: SCUBA oxygen-enriched and oxygen service FAQ. You don't want to have any contaminants in the tank, see question #3 about your comment about a light coat of surface rust. Are you willing to risk the potential dangers by not having the tank that supplies your life line of breathing gas not properly inspected and maintained?

I am in favor of going the extra step to be assured my air supply is clean and risk free.

Not knowing the shops you visited, are you comfortable with the knowledge of the two representatives you spoke with?

Just some things to consider....

 

[JessH]

I have read that in the past and honestly it has very little information pertinent to my question.

I want my tanks to be properly inspected and maintained hence the reason for taking it to the shop in the first place. What I don't want is to be charged for unnecessary maintenance that has the potential to contaminate a perfectly clean tank if done improperly. I respect a shops right to want to O2 clean tanks on a yearly basis but I do not feel it is necessary unless I do something that has the potential of contaminating my tank and since the industry standard seems to be every 5 years I will stick with that and go to another shop. There are ways to test for the presence of hydrocarbon contamination in a tank and I would have no problem with a dive shop doing that during a visual, but a full O2 clean seems unnecessary, especially an overpriced one.

That being said the first shops stance intrigued me so I want to know how common it is. Do you know of any other shops in the area that have the same practice?

As far as the rust comment goes I know for a fact that my tanks are currently rust free. The fact that they assumed high levels of rust just because they were steel lead me to believe that they do not know much about steel tanks. Additionally while not ideal I am under the impression that flash rust in steel tanks is relatively common and not that big of a deal. Pure O2 in steel tanks is used in many industries where far less is done to eliminate flash rust than in the scuba industry and there do not appear to be an abundance of problems as a result.

~Jess

 

[mike_s]

At the first shop I was also told that since my tanks were steel they would be full of rust so they would definitely need to be O2 cleaned..... I know for a fact that they aren't full of rust and besides it is my understanding that a light coat of surface rust is perfectly acceptable in a steel tank even when used for pure O2 service....

~Jess

That's giving false information by this shop. It's not always a "given" that they will have rust.

If your tanks were "full of rust" because they had been used for Nitrox, then you'd see people posting threads all over this and other message boards about their tanks being full of rust at every Visual Inspection.

Example. I took two of my steel tanks in for visual a while back. One of them was fine with no rust. The other one had rust in it. But... This was a tank I took on a liveaboard trip that had rust and six other people on that trip had the same problem with their tanks after the trip that was discovered by VIP. It wasn't because of the O2, but that their compressor system must have had a moisture problem on the boat.

yes that tank had to be tumbled and then o2 cleaned, but thank goodness that it didn't cost me $90 bucks!


$75 for o2 cleaning is way on the high side for me. but so is $20 bucks for a visual.

I've never heard of a shop charging that high....

 

[k-valve]

There are two items you have to consider for O2 cleaning: the tank and the valve. They have to be certified annually. If not, then the shop shouldn't be indicating they are O2 clean on the VIP sticker.

You can't just look inside and determine a tank is oxygen clean. Nor can you assume that it is O2 clean because the shops you use for fills have Grade E air certifications.

All that said, you are right. You should not necessarily have to have your tanks fully O2 cleaned annually. Before taking that step, the shop should inspect the inside of the tank with an ultraviolet light to see if there is any indication of contaminants. If they find none then your tanks don't need to be cleaned...they already are.

The valve is another animal, but it is a much simpler process to clean just a valve and it should not cost nearly as much. They shouldn't be using Simple Green to do the cleaning either. There are much more effective chemicals on the market today.

 

[Web Monkey]

My understanding of the situation was that most places require a tank to be re-02 cleaned at hydro time. That being my expectation I stopped in an Austin area shop the other day to get my Nitrox tanks visualed and they said that if I wanted to keep using them for Nitrox they would have to be 02 cleaned again, and that this was required at every visual inspection. They also wanted $75/tank for said cleaning in addition to the $20/tank for the visual. Probably would have charged me for a Nitrox fill on top of that the way the conversation was going.....

If they're doing a proper job, including completely disassembling and cleaning the valve and the tank, O2 cleaning everything, replacing all the o-rings, etc., and including a Nitrox fill $75 isn't an outrageous price.

An O2 cleaning at every VIP seems excessive.

Terry

 

[JessH]

There are two items you have to consider for O2 cleaning: the tank and the valve. They have to be certified annually. If not, then the shop shouldn't be indicating they are O2 clean on the VIP sticker.

Very right, my previous references to cleaning the tank meant both tank and valve. The shop is actually charging $50 for the tank and $25 for the valve. One could argue that the cleanliness of the valve is even more important than that of the tank.

You can't just look inside and determine a tank is oxygen clean. Nor can you assume that it is O2 clean because the shops you use for fills have Grade E air certifications.

Yep. I am assuming that my tanks are O2 clean because I bought them new as such from a reputable source and in the little over a year since that happened they have not been dove or refilled. Right after purchasing these tanks I stumbled upon a great deal for 4 other tanks(2 steel 95s and 2 aluminum 50s) that unfortunately lead me to neglect the first two that I bought especially because I haven't gotten around to buying bands or a manifold for them like I intended and still intend to do.

All that said, you are right. You should not necessarily have to have your tanks fully O2 cleaned annually. Before taking that step, the shop should inspect the inside of the tank with an ultraviolet light to see if there is any indication of contaminants. If they find none then your tanks don't need to be cleaned...they already are.

While I am assuming that my tanks are clean I also assume that a shop would be taking these steps and I have zero problem paying for cleaning them if they indeed need it. Of course I think if that is the case I still would prefer to be at the shop charging $45/tank for that and not the one charging $75/tank especially since the cheaper one seems to know a bit more about the subject.

~Jess

 

[Gen San Chris]

Basically I think that if you are using % of oxygen over 40 then you MUST have them cleaned at least anually also if they have been used for normal air or you suspect they have, clean them! The dive shop also will not fill them if unsure of clenliness!
For % lower than 40 then each year is fine unless there is any uestion as to what as actually been in the tank! Use Common sense, its your life!

 

[Pearldiver07]

Use Common sense, its your life!

Actually, when it comes to filling with O2, I'd say in this case, it's more of "their life."

After all, if you drop it off for a hi O2% fill, you may or may not be around when they're filling it. But they will be there!

 

[k-valve]

While I am assuming that my tanks are clean I also assume that a shop would be taking these steps and I have zero problem paying for cleaning them if they indeed need it. Of course I think if that is the case I still would prefer to be at the shop charging $45/tank for that and not the one charging $75/tank especially since the cheaper one seems to know a bit more about the subject.

You would think they'd be taking those steps, but they don't all scope them with a UV light first and they don't all use the highest grade of cleaning solution when they do clean them.

I think the issue here is that the one shop in town that knew something about tech diving went out of business and several of the existing shops have tried to take up the slack. They are still on the learning curve and are still ramping up their equipment. I think over time they'll have it all figured out.

Basically I think that if you are using % of oxygen over 40 then you MUST have them cleaned at least anually also if they have been used for normal air or you suspect they have, clean them! The dive shop also will not fill them if unsure of clenliness!
For % lower than 40 then each year is fine unless there is any uestion as to what as actually been in the tank! Use Common sense, its your life!

You are wrong. There's no need to clean a tank that is already clean. Whether or not there are contaminants in a tank can be verified adequately with a UV light.

I'm not sure what you mean by "normal" air. However, the quality of the air for any decent shop in the U.S. should be tested on a regular basis and the results of that testing will be posted. If a shop's air is determined to be Grade E then it is basically free of the contaminates contained in the air we breath "normally," and has a very low level of humidity. Grade E air will not contaminate your O2 clean equipment...tanks, valves, regs...that is if it is still Grade E when your tank is filled.