How Much Should Certification Cost?

[oly5050user]

Wow, really? I'm sorry to say I think you're being taken to the cleaners by someone.





I'm also enjoying coments in this thread along the lines of "I'm not an instructor, but I know exactly what it takes to make divers".

How is this "taken to the cleaners"??

she is getting one to one teaching.
She purchased her mask/fin/snkl that she would need anywhere she goes.
For the OW training dives she said its $150, at that price its only $37.50 a dive with an instructor.He still has to pay for his gas,time,air fills,insurance.
Sounds like a bargain to me..Lets say the time the instructor invests to get to site-prep classroom,pool- is 24 hours.Thats makes it $25. per hr .Out of that he pays for pool and classroom time,insurance etc.If pool time is really,really cheap(unheard of)he pays $250. for the pool.Now you have $350.Did you pay for the books,video,or was it included?If included take out another $90./$100. So he is left with $150. That comes out to $6.25 an hour for his pay..Still has his insurance to pay out of that $6.25 an hr..Oh yeah,taken to the cleaners!
Before I retired I had dog walkers to walk dogs at noon..Look at what they make-
My dog walkers make $150. a week/$600. a month to walk 2 dogs for 20 minutes a day,5 days a week..Pay is better picking up poop!

 

[redacted]

If you think that you can read enough to substitute for decades of diving and diving instructional experience ... more power to you, most of the people that charge the big bucks now likely learned to dive that way themselves. But they may have picked up a few worthwhile tricks along the way.

For some types of scuba instruction, nitrox is a prime example, I'm sure a diver can learn all of what he needs to know from a book. For OW, there are some skills that must be learned (some might even say mastered) that may require demonstration and coaching. But just like new drivers learning to operate a car, the demonstration and coaching need not come from a paid instructor to be effective.

 

[Nick_W]

How is this "taken to the cleaners"??

she is getting one to one teaching.
She purchased her mask/fin/snkl that she would need anywhere she goes.
For the OW training dives she said its $150, at that price its only $37.50 a dive with an instructor.He still has to pay for his gas,time,air fills,insurance.
Sounds like a bargain to me..Lets say the time the instructor invests to get to site-prep classroom,pool- is 24 hours.Thats makes it $25. per hr .Out of that he pays for pool and classroom time,insurance etc.If pool time is really,really cheap(unheard of)he pays $250. for the pool.Now you have $350.Did you pay for the books,video,or was it included?If included take out another $90./$100. So he is left with $150. That comes out to $6.25 an hour for his pay..Still has his insurance to pay out of that $6.25 an hr..Oh yeah,taken to the cleaners!
Before I retired I had dog walkers to walk dogs at noon..Look at what they make-
My dog walkers make $150. a week/$600. a month to walk 2 dogs for 20 minutes a day,5 days a week..Pay is better picking up poop!

I wasn't really talking about the cost of the instruction. Would you care to try to justify the $3000 to $4000 dollars she thinks she needs to spend on gear as a newly certified diver?

And if the same shop that has led her to believe that $3000 to $4000 dollars is reasonable also sold her on the idea that shen needed individual instruction then yes, she is being taken to the cleaners.

Now, as for your cost breakdown, be careful about saying cheap pool time is unheard of, I get free pool time for my classes. Books and video for my classes are nowhere near $90! Basically, it isn't nearly as expensive as some instructors would lead you to believe to certify a diver. I know my free pool time is the exception rather than the rule, but it isn't hard to find cheap pool time if you work at it a bit.

Now, keep in mind I still don't think the price she listed is the ripoff, I just get the feeling by reading the whole of her post that she may have hooked up with one of "those" shops that pushes the most expensive of everything, including instruction. I could be wrong, its happened before.

 

[Walter]

For the purposes of level 1 basic OW scuba ? Yes. Yes I do.

I'll glady (ok maybe not gladly, but I'll understand Why) pay the premiums later when I take my technical training, and I hope to pick up some Super Instructor tips n tricks at that time.

Great idea, build that skyscraper on a shoddy foundation.

 

[oly5050user]

I wasn't really talking about the cost of the instruction. Would you care to try to justify the $3000 to $4000 dollars she thinks she needs to spend on gear as a newly certified diver?

And if the same shop that has led her to believe that $3000 to $4000 dollars is reasonable also sold her on the idea that shen needed individual instruction then yes, she is being taken to the cleaners.

Now, as for your cost breakdown, be careful about saying cheap pool time is unheard of, I get free pool time for my classes. Books and video for my classes are nowhere near $90! Basically, it isn't nearly as expensive as some instructors would lead you to believe to certify a diver. I know my free pool time is the exception rather than the rule, but it isn't hard to find cheap pool time if you work at it a bit.

Now, keep in mind I still don't think the price she listed is the ripoff, I just get the feeling by reading the whole of her post that she may have hooked up with one of "those" shops that pushes the most expensive of everything, including instruction. I could be wrong, its happened before.

books are that expensive..crewpack and dvd video ..thats about what they retail at after tax.
As to gear costs,yes $4,000. is pricey but $3,000. is realistic.Yes you can do it for less,so why not tell her a realistic number and go through choices and when it is less she will be happy.Rather that than tell her it's only $800. for gear and then give her seizures when it comes up to $1,500.All comes down to what she needs and chooses.

 

[Nick_W]

books are that expensive..crewpack and dvd video ..thats about what they retail at after tax.
As to gear costs,yes $4,000. is pricey but $3,000. is realistic.Yes you can do it for less,so why not tell her a realistic number and go through choices and when it is less she will be happy.Rather that than tell her it's only $800. for gear and then give her seizures when it comes up to $1,500.All comes down to what she needs and chooses.

Why are you telling me that books and videos are that expensive when I just told you they aren't? I buy them all the time for a lot less than that! He's talking about the price to the instructor, not what you find them for retail.

As for your talk about the gear, I'm sorry, I don't mean this to sound rude, but I'm having a hard time following you here. Three thousand dollars for a BC, a set of regs, and a computer is insane. Even if you toss in a bunch of extra accessories, $3000 is way high. I've seen the crap people show up for classes with that they paid $3000 for at an LDS, its shocking to say the least.

 

[GatorKev]

I just checked out their website. The schedule is on there and they spend 5 hours in the pool before taking their students out to open water. 5 hours! I guess you get what you pay for...

Oh, wait a minute, 5 hours scheduled for the pool. That includes set up, tear down, and in between dives. Maybe you'll get 3 hours in the water with that schedule. Sorry, but I just can't let that one go without comment. That's pathetic.

Let me start by saying that I understand that you are an instructor and are supposed to be an expert in the field... But..
First, I guess that both major dive shops in Pensacola are wrong for charging $179 since Dive Pros also does it (Dive Pros Products Page) (over 20 years).
Second your statement would lead me to believe that you are one of the instructors that charge in excess of $400 for an OW cert and are probably mad at those who are willing to do it for cheaper to help introduce diving to others. This is why you would slam a great dive shop with top notch instructors which is very unprofessional. If you are a great instructor, and I believe you are, then you will get the price you ask and do not need to do this to others. Third, how long ago did you get your OW certification and how much time did you spend in the pool when you did? If you were OW certified a while ago I would almost be willing to bet that you didn't do much more than about 5 hours in a pool either (but you still are doing fine).. Seriously, how long do you need in a pool? PADI says 5 confined dives and my guess would be that they normally range about an hour each. How long do you have your students in a pool? I do understand that some people will not be comfortable and will possibly need more time to adjust but that is the decision that you as an instructor makes. As I have seen stated, some people have been diving for many years with a lot of dives and still aren't comfortable in the water.. But I guess if they had about 10 hours of pool time it would of helped...
With that being said we now know what is truly pathetic and I hope that none of your students read your above post to hear you put down another dive shop. You in disagreement with something if fine but don't lower yourself to put down others for having a different approach or insite unless it is truly unsafe and this does not fall under that situation... Now lets have a virtual beer... Cheers!

 

[Dive-aholic]

Check out my website. I charge $295 for OW plus book and admission fees. I supply air and equipment. I also limit my classes to no more than 4 students.

My issue isn't with their price. I could care less if they were giving it away for free. My issue is 5 hours allocated for pool time. By the time they arrive for the pool session, change into their wetsuits and set up their gear, they have already taken up about 1/2 an hour. 45 minutes in the pool, out of the water to change tanks (standards require gear disassembly and assembly between sessions), back in the water 20 minutes later. 45 minutes left in the pool session with 10 minutes for breakdown and gear rinse for night 1 to be finished. Same thing the next evening. This give the students 3 hours in the pool for 5 confined water sessions. Oh, and let's not forget the required watermanship skills. That alone will take at least 45 minutes.

When I did OW, we had 15 hours allocated to the pool. And I didn't think that was enough. Sure, you can probably get all the skills taught and checked off in that time period, but how comfortable are the students at them if they've only done them once or twice? I run my OW courses differently than most places, so we can't even compare them. But in comparing courses between dive shops, MBT is falling way short. They may be a great dive shop in other respects, but with only 5 hours allocated for pool time, which means less time in the water, they are missing the mark. They may even be in violation of standards. And for the record, I do believe 5 hours of pool time (read less than 5 hours wet) is truly unsafe...Cheers!

 

[jsado]

My PADI cert was extremely expensive, IMHO. $550 not including the standard extras that I had to purchase. BUT, I believe that I got high quality INSTRUCTION.

What gets me is that I know I gained a lot of knowledge from the class. I felt prepared and somewhat knowledgeable. Others in the class should NOT HAVE passed, but they did and are probably a danger to themselves and all the people they dive with.

 

[DivingPrincessE]

Others in the class should NOT HAVE passed, but they did and are probably a danger to themselves and all the people they dive with.

I agree, I think that shops pass divers that are not ready to safely dive too often.