How many non-tech divers carry a pony bottle?

[Meng_Tze]

One example would be entering and traveling with the flow in a cave. The OW analogy would having to travel out with the current and return against it.

Overhead means just that, any place where its either impossible or not wise to directly surface. It also can include diving in active boat channels for that matter.

In your OW analogy, the dive could be considered planned inapropriately...? Going out with flow and expecting divers to return against flow is looking for trouble. But that is a different thread. Realistic?

Looking at it purely from a gas management perspective.... yes, 1/3's could result in a gas shortage. (just like Syphon diving).

 

[joe rock]

I have a 19 cu.ft. Pony. And I still have my octo. (an air 2 actually). The pony is for redundant air source only - only plan to use it in a true OOA emergency or equipment failure - both of which I hope never happens I do practice with it, usually at the end of a diving during my ascent.

JR

 

[EvaL]

HI. I'm just replying to the original question by the poster.
Me - rec diver, about 170 dives (mostly warm SW), recently bought a pony.
Reason for buying a pony:
1. I don't have a regular dive buddy, usually pairing up with whomever the dive op/DM assigns me. Sometimes the DM doesn't assign me a buddy but said "we"ll dive as a group", which makes me less comfortable when diving deep or in a new environment.
2. I am an UW photographer, I have occasionally found myself further away from my buddy or group than I wanted because I was trying to photograph a creature. It would have been too far away if I found myself suddenly without air.
Although I haven't come close to situations needing a redundant air source, I have been thinking about getting a pony for a while (was using a 3 cu. ft. Spareair for a while but it had limited amount of air, and breathed very wet). The opportunity came when I purchased a new reg and could use the old one for my pony tank. So I purchased a 19 cu. ft. Luxfer from LDS (under $100), swopped the SPG and octo onto the new reg and stuck a gauge to my old reg so it was ready to be a pony reg. I'm keeping my octo when diving with the pony because removing it doesn't make the pony completely redundant any more.
If you'e looking for a pony bottle, many folks on SB don't recommend tanks under 13 cu. ft. unless you dive shallow.
Dive safely.

 

[ArcticDiver]

Disclaimer: I am not using a "pony/stage" bottle yet.
But here is how I view this subject, correct me if my thinking is wrong....

To me, the pony bottle is like the airbag in your car. It is there in case the stuff hits the fan....
Am I over simplify this? or is this this simple?

Yes, you are oversimplifying. Also, the analogy doesn't hold.

First of all; proper planning brings with it a proper and adequate breathing gas supply. That has been thoroughly explored in previous posts.

Equipment failure involving properly maintained equipment is, as far as we know, extremely rare. So, the kind of emergency we are most concerned about involves human problem or some environmental thing like entanglement. Unlike the collision that deploys an airbag; how long it will take to solve problems like this is an unknown. So, it makes no sense to arbitrarily limit your ability to deal with such emergencies.

In short the extra gas being talked about in the posts to this thread make a fallacious assumption: That upon recognizing an emergency the diver will be able to immediately begin an ascent to the surface.

 

[all4scuba05]

Ok, let's say that you and your buddy that you trust book a boat dive with Get Wet Divers for Saturday. 80ft nonpenetration wreck dive. Saturday, you buddy calls you and says he's not going because he's got a pint of goo stuck in his nose. You go on the boat dive and get paired up with Joe Whatever. Well for some reason that you can't fathom, dirt has caused your first stage to not pass gas. You go to your instabuddy and because you're such a great diver, you don't rip the reg from his face, you ask for his backup reg. What makes you so sure that his gear has a working backup reg? You don't know if he has properly maintained equipment. Lot's of what divers do, they do just incase that one rare thing happens. So why advise someone to plan the dive right and leave the pony at home? That's pretty much what it sounds like. Accidents are not planned. What's hopefully planned and practiced is what to do if and when they happen.

 

[htn123]

All4scuba, yep you nailed it on the head. Yes, you can plan until the cow comes home BUT accidents are accidents. That is why they called it accidents, they don't called it planned failure.
In the perfect world, no car broke down beside the road, no tire blown out. But stuff happened.

ArticDiver, don't you think NASA with all of their brains and planning should not have any accident? But guess what? how many accident has happened? and how many lifes have been lost?

The idea of yeah, I got my equipment all good and fine and I trust and plan with my buddy to save me so let's leave the little extra insurance at home is just don't sound like a good idea at all.

And no, we are not talking about diving at 20-30 feet when stuff happens. What if it happend at 80 feets while your insta-buddy is having his mask flooded? So now you trust his thinking to save your buns? or the ultimate planning is that you plan to save your own skin instead of depend on some one else? That is the question. And that is called planning. Yes, your buddy should have been there, he should be able to have extra gas to cover your buns, should be able to handle the situation, should have his octo ready.... should have, could have.... but... I don't want to be the one in the casket and thinking out loud should have, could have.

Again, accident DO happens to the best plans in the world and I would want to cover my buns instead of depend on someone else.

 

[ClayJar]

Equipment failure involving properly maintained equipment is, as far as we know, extremely rare.

As we all know, house fires are extremely rare. You're much more likely to have a car accident, therefore, having smoke detectors in your house is a bad idea.

Nope. Still doesn't work for me.

The problems of equipment failure and those of "human problems" or entanglement are orthogonal. While one would be served well by addressing all factors, I see nothing egregiously wrong with addressing the low-hanging fruit of equipment failure.

Most of my dives have been in open water with vis anywhere from decent to great. I do not do penetration diving. The dive sites rarely have any discernable current at all. The odds of my finding a way to entangle myself are quite slim, indeed. As for "human problems", I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but I'll just say that if I'm a healthy, fit, well-hydrated, properly trained, experienced diver diving conservative profiles at depths where narcosis is unlikely for a diver in said condition, I don't know why having some extra gas in case of equipment failure would be such a bad idea.

 

[TSandM]

My favorite piece of extra/safety equipment is about 6 feet tall and has blue eyes . . .

I'm very lucky to have the dive buddies I have. They keep me from having to contemplate hauling an auxiliary tank with me -- But of course, these days, I'm diving doubles anyway, which is better redundancy than a pony to me.

I don't see a problem with somebody carrying a pony if a) it's considered ONLY an emergency supply; b) adequate gas planning is done for the backgas, and c) the pony has enough volume to be an adequate gas source to permit a safe ascent if it is needed. But if you're diving in situations (other than solo) that make you think a pony may be necessary, I'd sit down and think about whether you can change those situations.

 

[highlandfarmwv]

After my human dive buddy aborted and left me 4 out of 4 dives at 90-120 feet, I have ordered from the LDS, a nice little 6 cu ft yellow buddy, filled with Nitrox-- so offgassing will be enhanced--just to get me up if my primary regulator malfunctions. NOT to prolong bottom time (6 cu ft wouldn't do that much anyhow).

 

[do it easy]

Geez, my argon bottle is bigger than your pony bottle.